The WP Minute+

matt: What is this new plugin?

You're launching siren affiliates.

I'm seeing it.

I'm seeing you talk about it on Twitter.

We'll get into like your marketing and
behind the scenes and all that stuff.

But what, what does this plugin do

alex: Well, at its core, Siren,
it's an affiliate plugin.

at least that's the easiest way I
can describe it to people who've

never seen anything like it.

basically it allows people to create
different and varied, affiliate plugins

or programs, but not just like the
basic ones that you've thought of.

So you can create those.

But you can also create all kinds of
different ways to collaborate together

That fall outside of what you might
think of as an affiliate program.

So let me give you a quick
example Just to help with that.

Let's say like on Chris's podcast.

I talked about this a lot, but like
I Let's say you wanted to create a

multiple course creator program where
you have a Platform where there's

multiple course creators on a single
site and you want to be able to pay them

based on their viewership You Right.

And you want to pay them a
percentage of the profits based

on like how many people completed
their course and stuff like that.

Each month, Siren is built so that you
can create diverse programs in that way.

matt: when people hear affiliate plugin?

Immediately their radars go off, right?

They're like, Oh my God, affiliates.

Number one, they're like,
I'll never do affiliates.

alex: Yeah.

matt: Then there's like that whole
persona of Affiliate marketers where

people might be like turned off by it
What do you think that differentiator

is for the way that you're approaching
this market with this product?

Are you are you looking at that going?

You know what?

I'm gonna try to flip that narrative
a little bit or are you saying nah,

man That's where the money's made
whether you like affiliates or not Like

I'm just gonna lean into that market
and that's just where we're headed

alex: Yeah.

It's, it's kind of both to be honest.

but it's, it's more of the, the
former, the first thing you said.

So basically the, the big thing for me
is that affiliates got a bad affiliate

programs have historically had a bed rep,
bad rep because of the insincerity of it.

Right.

So people who will refer your business.

may or may not have
ever used that business.

And it's very clear that they're
just in it for the money.

And, you know, it kind of creates this
inauthentic experience as a result.

but then on the flip side of that,
another thing that a lot of people talk

about is, they'll create an affiliate
program and it just doesn't work, right?

Like they, they don't see any,
any traction with it, or they'll

get people to sign up and nobody
will actually do anything with it.

And, I've actually been spending
a fair bit of time just creating

educational resources on my website
as well to like kind of combat

some of those things because it
doesn't have to be that way, right?

This can be an authentic relationship
between you and your affiliates and

your affiliates can have authentic
relationships with their audience and

still create really meaningful affiliate
programs without it feeling smarmy and,

and, you know, snake oil salesman like.

matt: One of the things that I find, or
I found interesting in that interview,

and again, I'll link it up in the show
notes, and we'll, and I actually just

wanted to unpack this, this part of it.

I've been exploring a lot.

Again, back to sort of like the roots
of what I did with the Matterport

many years ago is exploring the, the
roots of, freelancers getting into

the game of, of WordPress, right?

Client services, designing sites,
building sites, maintaining sites.

And I think, as I've been saying
through this, podcast for a while

now that I think we're going to see
a resurgence of services business.

I mean, I'm already seeing
it, but, I think we're, we're

going to see this again, and.

What you were talking about is it doesn't
just have to be like affiliate or the

way that you've modeled this plug in
and correct me If I'm wrong, it doesn't

have to be about this Oh, I'm selling
a plug in or I'm selling a product and

you're gonna get 30 percent No service
providers can also use your product

is is is what I heard Unpack that for
me because I think a lot of service

providers Providers in the beginning.

They're like, I don't even
know how to grow my, I don't

know how to grow my business.

I don't know how to find clients.

You know, I want to
partner with other people.

Maybe I want to give them a cut.

So let's unpack that whole using
this for a services business.

alex: Oh, yeah.

I just wrote like a 2000 word blueprint
on this exact topic on the blog the

other day So this the one of the big
things about siren that makes it really

powerful is you can create more than one
program with it So instead of just having

a single monolithic affiliate program
that's supposed to do like everything

you can create multiple programs.

And that's really relevant to people
who are doing service based businesses

because their products, the customer's
journey to the purchase tends to be, a lot

longer than say you're buying, you know,
an iPhone case or something like that.

you know, you can with a single
interaction with an affiliate.

On a website, decide that you're
going to go through an entire customer

journey and buy an iPhone case.

That's not really the case with,
with service based things, right?

So, the, as a result that that
process is a lot longer and there's

a lot more steps in that process.

And because of that, people tend
service based people tend to look

at it and go, Oh, well, affiliate
programs won't work for me because

I'm not selling phone cases.

Right.

But really, if you look at it with
Siren, because there's multiple programs,

all those different touch points in
the journey can have a program that's

specifically tailored for that so
that you can credit all the people who

have helped, that customer through the
journey to converting to you at the end.

So if you have maybe you have a, a,
a program that's specifically for

podcasters who are talking about
things related to your service.

You can create a program for them
so that whenever they talk about

it, they can send a lead to you.

Right.

And then you can get credit for, they
can get credit for that lead if that lead

ever actually converts in the future.

And then it also gets really
interesting for service based

companies whenever you start thinking
about this, like by the vertical.

So maybe I'm a web development agency and
I want to go and work and, I want to serve

the breweries, like the brewing industry.

Right.

And I want to specifically start going,
I start going to their conferences.

I started going to those events and I
started doing talks about, you know,

like web development and web solutions.

through the lens of what
a brewery would need.

And then you can take that.

And while you're there, of
course, you're looking for

customers and things like that.

But you could also be looking for
potential affiliates, potential people

who can collaborate with you who are
have, a business in that niche as well.

But they also aren't
your competitor, right?

So they're not going to be your customer,
but they're not your competitor.

These are great opportunities
for people to be able to, you

know, refer business to you.

So you work with those people, you
get them signed up on the program,

and then you give them an opportunity
to get a little bit of a kickback

whenever, you know, they refer you.

matt: just talking to, Mark Samansky, who
co hosts a lot of live streams with me

at the WP minute, and we're just talking
about the, The industry today, right?

We're talking about, you know,
I ran an agency for a decade.

It's been nearly a decade
since I've done that.

you know, I left it about
seven, eight years ago.

still runs today.

My father still runs it, still
got a team, et cetera, et cetera.

But, you know, I've, I've gone through
the whole highs and lows of being an

agency owner, being a service provider.

Stuff and he's, you know, he was
telling me the other day, man, Matt, you

know, the industry is different today.

You can't get these customers to pay,
you can't get them to deliver content.

And I'm Mark, you're saying all the
same things I struggled with 20 years

ago, it just, it sounds the same.

The tools might be different, right?

We have whatever Gutenberg bricks
elements or all these things now.

yes, it's a, it's a lot more
competitive, but what I like.

Particularly when I was listening to you
talk about this stuff is you should as

an freelancer, an agency owner, create
a product that you could sell more

affordably like a course, like a guide,
something that's a little more one off.

There's no commitment, but
you know, you're profitable.

The customer is getting value from it
and it's high ticket enough or higher

priced enough, I guess, where you could
pay out an affiliate to say, Hey, I'm

If you recommend this course for my
services, you'll get a little money too.

With all that being said, is there
from what you've seen so far,

is there like a sweet spot, like
minimal for a course or a guide or

something like that where you should
be thinking, well, it should be 200.

That way you can give.

100 to an affiliate.

Is there a formula you work with on
figuring out like what that payout

or what that price point should be?

alex: Yeah.

So I have a, I have a, I
base it on the profit margin.

so if you've got a really good
profit margin, you know, you

should be offering like 25%, 30
percent even, for your affiliates.

If your profit margin is a little tighter.

Then, you know, you've got to
obviously scale down your profit,

your, your payout based on that.

most of the time I generally just
recommend for, for service based companies

to, to do a percentage, just because it's,
it's the easiest one, it's scales well,

and, you don't have to change everything.

Every time you change the
pricing or anything like that.

and also it's easy to plan for, right?

Because from a budget perspective, you can
say, okay, well, I know that at most I'm

going to end up losing, you know, giving
away this percentage to my affiliates

and the rest of it comes to my business.

but what you were saying a minute
ago about having lower costs, more

affordable products to sell, I think
is a really key component of this,

for service based companies, because.

the way I always put it is give
them something to sell, right?

Like they can't sell a custom WordPress
website solution or even, you know,

anything like that, anytime it gets
into the realm of custom and there's

questions and there's discovery at
all, it's going to be a real, it's not

going to be as easy, they can generate
leads for you, but they're not going

to be able to actually convert for you.

So, by creating something that is, you
know, packaged up and has a defined

scope, You know, something like a
website audit or a course, or maybe

even a build for a single webpage or
setting up a site or something like that.

There's all kinds of different options
here, but it has to be something that has

a small fixed scope that you can charge,
you know, for a couple hundred dollars,

you know, maybe more, but usually,
you know, a few hundred dollars is.

It's a pretty good range there, and you,
give that to your affiliates and you

let them focus on converting on that.

Then you're able to, use that as a
part of the customer journey, right?

But the key thing here is
the affiliate got paid.

Already, right?

So they got their commission.

They they're doing the thing
they're doing their conversion.

You're giving them something to convert.

And, all while you're doing that and
you're building this thing, you're

building that rapport with that
customer at that same time, right?

So while you're doing that.

while you're serving them and you're
getting paid for this, you're actually

getting paid to learn about this
customer and learn what their needs are.

And that tends to lead to bigger and
better projects for that customer.

Or maybe you, you know, you do this
project and you realize you don't

want to work with this person and you
decide, you know what, after this,

I'm just going to, I'm just going
to pump the brakes and, and move on.

matt: On the website, you have
two platforms siren affiliates.

com You have two platforms in
the primary nav woocommerce and

and lifter lms technically I'm
assuming, but you can fill me in.

Technically, if somebody were selling a
200 course slash guide, and you were an

affiliate to that, and then the person
had an upsell in the back end for, let's

say that 1, 500 website build out, right?

Maybe they do a website in a day kind of
thing, but the lead in is that 200 course.

Technically, you know, if you sell
that 200 course, but then that

same person who bought that course
buys the 1, 500 website build.

Is there technically a way to glue
that together where the affiliate is

making money on that 1500 sale as well?

alex: Oh yeah, for sure.

it's, it's not.

I mean, it's not, that's not the default
behavior, but it's definitely doable.

I mean, if, if something converts,
you know, over, you can, you

can, you can definitely do

matt: because I can, because that's one
of the challenges and I was going to put

you on the hot seat a little bit on the,
on the, on the web services side is while

it's easy for us to say, yeah, you know,
you make the course and lead these people

in, but if your meat and potatoes is, I
don't know, 5, website, 5, 000 website,

I mean, minimally 2, 500 bucks, you're,
somebody's going to want to talk to you.

All right.

Like they're going to, they're
going to be like, Hey, so, you

know, tell me about this service.

What other sites have you built?

You know, yeah.

Maybe you'll get by 25,
but 5, 000 certainly you're

having a phone call, right?

And, and that's the part where.

An affiliate might lose out.

Is there like some kind of manual
reciprocity that you have in the

software where somebody says, Oh, you
know what, let me pay out Alex because

I can manually pay out Alex because I
know that's a customer he sent and I can

manually pay him through the software.

Does that exist?

Is that a thing?

alex: Yeah.

That's an option, but technically the
way I would approach this, if, if I

was trying to sell a 5, 000 product
directly on my website and I wanted

to use an affiliate program for it,
I wouldn't create a single program.

I would end up creating
probably two, at least two.

to one of the programs would be focused
on generating leads, which is more akin

to the traditional affiliate program.

the leads, they don't get paid for
those leads until the lead actually

converts, like actually makes a
purchase, but they will get credit

when that conversion happens.

And then I also have, would have a second
program that's focused on sales, right?

So it's more traditional salesmanship.

it might be, you know, doing
webinars, conversion focused webinars.

It might be.

you know, taking those calls, doing
the scope or, or outsourcing the scope

or doing whatever needs to be done to
be able to actually make that happen.

Right.

And obviously those two programs are
very different in terms of how much they

pay out and you know, what each person
gets, maybe the lead is on a fixed

rate, maybe they, they get a, you know,
a hard stop at 200 for a conversion.

It could be a percentage as
well for that lead based one.

It just depends on how
you want to approach that.

Right.

but by creating two
programs, you're essentially.

Solving the problem that you're
talking about where, you want to make

sure that an affiliate does get the
opportunity to be able to actually earn

the credit for bringing that lead in
the first place and having the two part

approach like that works really well
because they need each other, right?

The leads.

The lead generators need the
salespeople to convert and the

salespeople need the lead generators
to bring them the leads in the first

matt: And when you think about that
strategy, is that program like the lead

program, does that have to be free?

Do you recommend it be free?

Something that somebody opts
into and then the upsell.

Or do you think nah man, today people
should just opt in for at least a

hundred bucks, couple hundred bucks
to buy this thing because everyone's

getting better value out of this?

alex: I think that the lead program
is really just for me, it's, it's

literally just a link and affiliate link.

So if I, you know what I mean?

So if I I'm driving traffic to a specific
landing page, it could also be, you know,

like they, they fill out a form with like
gravity forms or something like that.

And.

whenever that form is filled out, that
counts as the lead and that awards

the lead to a specific affiliate so
that whenever, that lead converts

later on, then they get credit for it.

matt: Gotcha.

Yeah, I mean, again, I think that,
going back to the freelancer,

especially the freelancer who, you
know, might be struggling, this is a

great way to differentiate yourself.

Right.

Using a, using a, having a program like
this and then also thinking, well, let

me start with an entry level course,
whatever that might be, or guide, because

finding those clients and networking
are two components that are really hard

in the beginning, but once they sort
of snowball together and that thing

starts rolling down the mountain, that's
where the business is made, right?

You know, referrals from not just
customer like word of mouth, but, Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, if you're in the WordPress
space, a lot of us spend time talking

to other folks in the WordPress space,
we need to know who, what do you do?

What do you stand for?

What's your differentiator?

So that when I talk to somebody else,
I go, Oh, you know, go check out that

thing that Alex has, or go check out
that thing that Matt has or Mark has.

And I know where I can send you.

And if I can make a few bucks off,
off the side of it, even better,

it's even, it's even better.

Um,

back to the hot seat for a second.

I want to talk about the
pricing that you have right now.

Now we're recording this May 20th.

You are set to launch June, July?

June 4th.

49 lifetime deal.

So the hot,

alex: little crazy.

I know.

matt: seat is 49 bucks and lifetime deal.

Tell me about that decision.

alex: Yeah, it's, it's, I've
been describing it in my internal

monologues as stupidly low.

and I'm aware of that and it's not, it's,
it's not going to be there for long.

I'm going to be honest.

The, the goal and the entire reason
why I'm doing it is because I want

to get this plugin in people's hands.

I want to see people trying this.

I want to see people using this.

I'm interested in helping them succeed.

And I want to learn what.

People, how people are using this
so that I can build it better.

And the quickest way for me to do that
is to offer a ridiculously low deal

that, you know, I'm only ever going
to offer once I'm literally never,

ever going to make this offer again.

and it's, it's just this
one time, this one moment.

to, you know, get people in and, I mean,
it pays to be the early bird for sure.

In this

matt: We'll call it Alex's almost
ridiculously free plan because I

mean, it's 49 for a lifetime deal.

It's, it's pretty much free, at the,
at that point, especially if you're

alex: Yeah.

I'm basically giving it

matt: you're making money off of it.

So, let's unpack it.

What's your strategy for finding,
for finding affiliates for, for

this plugin, what are you doing?

I know you're appearing
on podcasts, of course.

What else are you doing to sort
of rally the troops to, to join

alex: Well, obviously I'm going
to come, I'm doing exactly what

I was just saying a minute ago.

I'm going to vertical
specific conferences.

In my case, that starts
with WordPress, right?

I'm really well networked in this
space, so I'm just starting there.

I've actually already had a
few people reach out to me.

And I've asked, to be on
the affiliate program.

So there's, there's that too.

I've been noodling around the idea
of creating a blog content bonus

program on my site to allow people
to write content on sirenaffiliates.

com and get credit for whenever
anybody reads their post.

I've been thinking about a few different
other ideas on top of that, that I'm,

I'm not quite ready to announce or
any say anything about yet, but mom,

the gist is pretty much, yeah, I'm
going to start by networking, talking

to people, talking to the YouTubers
in the space, the podcasters, the.

You know, the, just the, the media
in general around WordPress and then,

probably start branching out into more
generic, places outside of this space.

but really I'm just kind
of, I'm starting with one.

I know, and I know WordPress

matt: a, you could buy yourself
a hazmat suit before you go

to an affiliate conference.

alex: probably.

I

matt: the fallout series on Amazon?

All right.

And there's, it's you know,
they're whatever it is.

It's there's a utopia inside,
you know, where they are.

Everything's great.

And then you go out to the, like
this nuclear wasteland and it's Oh

alex: it's like desolate.

Yeah.

matt: I know that's not, not
the way it all is, but, it's the

unfortunate stigma because, yeah, I
mean, I get bombarded all the time

with folks who are in the WordPress
space, making WordPress products.

And they're just like, Hey,
you know, review our stuff.

We'll give you this affiliate link.

And it's just constant noise.

and the relationship side is really.

you know, where I want to exist.

Like I want to have a relationship
with trusted software and maybe

like 80 percent of the time, not
even get paid out for anything.

I just want to recommend good stuff.

talk to me,

alex: And honest,

matt: No, you unpack that.

alex: Okay.

honestly, I mean, that's
kind of a big thing.

So I've got a, I've got a guide that
I wrote for, people to talk about

how to build their affiliate program.

And that's a big recurring theme for
me whenever I'm talking about it is

Your relationship with your affiliates
should be focused on authenticity.

You should be focused on finding
people who are really excited about

your product, actually believe in
your product and want to do this.

If you're just reaching out to people
saying, Hey, you can make, if you're

just reaching out to podcasters and
YouTubers, and you're just like, Hey, I've

got this product, you want to sell it?

They're not going to be
interested, you know?

So, and, and, because, you know, you
have an audience and you realize that

that audience has a value to you and.

Those people and you don't want
to squander that or lose that

audience Chilling out something
that doesn't feel authentic, right?

all the great podcasters
and people like that.

They're always authentic, right?

There's always an
authenticity level to it.

Even if if you think about
more traditional, like bigger

affiliate program, people like
Pat Flynn comes to mind, right?

With his, SPI podcast and all that stuff.

smart, passive income or whatever he,
you know, he is an affiliate marketer.

Like he is the first one I think of
whenever I think of affiliate marketing.

And if you just listen to him, how
he talks about his relationship

with affiliate marketing, right?

It's always about authenticity.

It's always about, I
use this product myself.

I believe in this product and
therefore I'm going to recommend it.

And, so I'm always saying like
people, not numbers, don't forget it.

And honestly, I don't even recommend
the thing it gets me is a lot of

people will be like, how do I get
my first a hundred affiliates?

How do I get my first, you know,
500 affiliates or whatever?

And I'm like, why are you
talking about a hundred?

You need 10, you know, because, because
most, most of these programs, like

if you look at almost any affiliate
program and you look at their numbers,

almost all of them have this same
pattern where they'll have a thousand

affiliates and 10 of them or 50 of them
pretty much do all of the sales, right?

So why are you trying to get a thousand
when really what you need are 50

good ones or 10 good ones, right?

So.

And those good ones are the
ones that are authentic and

focused on those relationships.

So skip that bull crap and just
find the people who are your biggest

fans who have an audience who you
can run with and run with them.

matt: Because it's also more problems.

It's when you have, especially in the
affiliate side, when you have a thousand

people in there, it's just, it's an
overhead for more issues where, you know,

they're not following brand guidelines,
they're doing shady stuff with your links.

You know, they're putting your
product alongside other products you

don't want to be represented with.

So, you know, if you, if you can cultivate
that, you know, and, and, and, It

almost is, it's like the same issues.

If you're building a membership
site, one of the hardest things is

like engagement, getting people to
come back, doing all that stuff.

So, you know, if you can work closely with
people who are also making money with you.

I think it's just a better fit, right?

It's a better fit.

It's almost like you can almost have a
mini sales outsource sales force in a way.

And it's, it's a pretty cool thing.

before we start running out of
time, I want to talk about this.

I don't know what you, you labeled, you
said it and I heard you talking about with

Chris before too, but being able to get
paid out, by contributing to a blog, it

sounds You know, it's not massive payouts,
but it's like this recurring thing.

Maybe the more you blog,
the more you get paid out.

Tell me about that model you've
incorporated into this plugin.

alex: Sure.

So, this was kind of inspired
by, I don't know if you

remember, it was called Squidoo.

It was a, a blogging platform
that Seth Godin made back in

the two thousands where Yeah.

So, so the, the concept was basically
you publish what they called lenses

and they were basically blog posts on
Squidoo and, he would pay you based

on the amount of traffic you got to
your site based on the revenue shares.

So if you, if you, you know, if the,
if Squidoo as a whole, the blog as a

whole received a thousand dollars at
over the course of a month, and you

were the majority of the traffic, you're
going to get the biggest cut of revenue.

Those profits.

So there's all kinds of different
ways you can build these.

Like siren doesn't necessarily
say let's build a blog program or

let's build an affiliate program.

What it says is.

It lets you break it down into
three or four different things that

happen in different ways to pay out.

And you, you basically define when a
person gets credit for the traffic, for

the, the customer, the opportunity you
put out, how much they get paid and you

put out how, that money gets divided among
the people who it could, could win it.

So if you wanted to pay, If you had
50 bloggers and all of them were

writing content on your site, you
could actually set it up to where,

at the end of the month, you know,
whoever gets, whoever wrote the most

stuff gets the majority of the, the,
the revenue share for that month.

Or in my case, you could, where I'm more
lead focused than I am on revenue with ads

or anything like that, you can go with.

Basically treating it
like an affiliate link.

So if an affiliate sends, a person
to a blog post that somebody

else wrote, and that per that's
two separate programs, right?

Right.

One's an affiliate program.

One's a blog content bonus program.

And both of them would be able
to get paid should that person

who visits that blog convert.

So you can set it up to where you
can stack these different programs on

top of each other and it all kind of
lets you create, it lets you create

this like organic, collaboration
between these different people, right?

Because you have affiliates who
need a reason to send a link, an

affiliate link or need content
to send affiliate links for.

And then you have bloggers who are
writing that content and need people

to send, traffic to their content.

And then, you know, you've got the person
who's actually running the platform

itself to be able to actually get
those conversions and earn that money.

So you're able to, create these different
ways to, dynamically and organically,

allow these people to work together.

matt: a concept.

I don't want to bore the audience
or you, but there's this concept.

there's an open source side
to, to podcasting that many

folks don't know about.

It's called podcasting 2.

0.

There is their own podcast
index, equivalent to wordpress.

org having a bunch of podcasts.

It's the alternative to say,
Apple podcasts and Spotify

directories, all that stuff.

And they have a whole, open source
movement about improving RSS feeds and

adding stuff to podcasting RSS, just like
WordPress improves, the RSS feed improves.

And, And the anti podcasting 2.

0 again, you go back to Spotify,
Apple, YouTube, those who don't

want to enhance RSS cause they
want everything on their platforms.

but the point I'm getting at is they
have this thing called value for

value inside RSS is being pioneered.

You know, the unfortunate side
of it is it's, it's being, It's

pioneered by, Bitcoin technology.

So you would have to use
an app that's compatible.

There's a bunch of podcasting apps
that are compatible podcasting apps.

com.

You'll find it.

and what you do is you load up a digital
wallet, you know, you buy a little bit

of Bitcoin for 50 bucks or whatever.

And then when you're using these apps.

and a podcast is podcasting 2.

0 enabled, you can actually stream what's
known as Satoshi's, the smallest form

of Bitcoin to the podcaster, and you can
send them like little micro payments.

So it's, it's everything
everyone's always wanted.

The unfortunate roadblock
is the Bitcoin's side of it.

For a lot of people, they don't like it.

It's too technical, and it
is, and that's the unfortunate

roadblock, but it's everything
you've always wanted from you know.

your cell phone, your cable bill.

You're like, I just want to pay
what I'm listening to, right?

And, and they're, and they're
starting to get into courses.

Now, this is where I'm going with it.

They're starting to get into,
to courses and, and audio books.

And basically what that means
is as As a buyer, you could only

pay for what you've consumed.

So, instead of paying a hundred bucks
for a course, you could, you would, there

would be a set value that happens that
the course creator would, would set.

And as you watch the show, or, or,
excuse me, as you watch the course,

or listen to the course, you're paying
whatever adds up to a hundred bucks.

But if you never finish it,
you would only pay fifty bucks.

but the flip side of that and
the whole value for value thing

is you could be like, you know
what, I love this course so much.

I'm going to crank up the
streaming payment so that.

That the creator, instead of that creator
getting a hundred bucks, I'm gonna give

him three hundred bucks when I complete
this course, you know, and it kind of

adds this dynamic to the whole, content
consumption, side of things, I don't

have no question there, that was just a
soapbox moment because that's what your,

that's what your blogging, scenario sounds
like to me, it's You create content.

If it's valuable and people
come, I'll pay you out.

They're kind of doing this now
with podcasting, but in a more

technical, you know, sense.

And I think it's a really cool way
to start thinking about creating like

these content communities and other
avenues for, for content creators.

alex: Yeah, for sure.

It's, it's, I'm, I'm really
excited about all of that.

Cause I think that, we need more
options like that for content.

especially with what's going on with, you
know, a lot of bloggers and stuff with

Google and everything that's happening,
related to them having to pivot, right.

Because Google is changing their
algorithm and all that stuff.

I, the thing that gets me is all of this
stuff kind of ties into that idea, the

idea of Loosening that grip a little to
me like if we're gonna get really like big

and heady like that's that's kind of what
I think About a lot with this is like the

siren to me kind of feels so fundamental
to the web in a lot of ways, where it's,

it's, you know, if you think back to like
blog roles and you think about like people

who were, you know, had a list of just
links of other websites that they liked

just because they thought they were cool.

And like the entire web was interconnected
just by a series of websites that

were like connected to each other.

Right.

It was federated in a lot of ways.

And, I, A lot for me, like
the vision of siren isn't just

to be an affiliate program.

It's to be a way to allow, a company or
a business like that to incentivize and,

you know, give credit to people for that
kind of thing to help them everywhere

from a full on sales, like You know, a
car dealership, literally just creating

a whole sales platform on their site,
using it, but also like for people who are

trying to do, to monetize and, and help.

writers actually get paid for their
writing without necessarily relying

on ad revenue and stuff like that.

matt: Yeah.

It's, you know, it's, yes, a hundred,
we could talk about this forever.

Like the silos of social, social media,
you know, what if, what if, okay.

RSS really won the technical war, 20 years

alex: Oh

matt: right?

If, if we all had an RSS link, like
we have a website, and every, and

it was just a ubiquitous thing.

Everybody understood what RSS was.

And you'd be like, oh yeah,
just go to my RSS link.

That's where all my content comes out.

it's the freest way of delivering
content to the entire world, yet

humanity chose social media platforms.

Because they were faster, sexier,
and, you know, you did a lot of cool

things, started sharing photos with
people, then you could like it, and

be like, oh my god, this is amazing.

Meanwhile, RSS is standing in the
corner going, no, We could do the

same things with this old antiquated
technology and you would own it, right?

There'd be no ads in between your content.

alex: I know.

It could have been so great.

I think about it all the

matt: Google knew it, right?

That's why they killed off, killed RSS.

And, and they just killed their podcast
app, which is you know, now, now, now

they're telling people like, oh, YouTube's
going to be the savior of, Podcasts.

Yeah, like that.

What don't you realize they're doing it

alex: I've been on this.

I've been on this ride before.

I know where this is going.

matt: Alex is fantastic.

Conversation.

siren affiliates.

com.

We're going to get this episode
out because I know you're

launching on the 4th, June 4th.

right now, if you're hearing this and
it's still available, I'd grab that

49 lifetime, almost free crazy deal.

that Alex has put together.

Siren affiliates.

com anywhere else, Alex,
you want folks to go.

alex: nope.

That'll be alright.

matt: Alex, thanks for hanging out today.

alex: Thanks.