The WP Minute+

Matt Medeiros (00:02)
Kamil Rextin, welcome to the WP Minute.

Kamil Rextin (00:06)
Thank you. Pleasure to be here.

Matt Medeiros (00:08)
This is literally the first few minutes we've known each other and talked to each other. So let me try to build rapport super fast. Omega Railmaster or Omega Speedmaster, which one do you select? Speedmaster, all right. Listen, I've just started to dabble in the world of watches and...

Kamil Rextin (00:22)
⁓ you went there, screen master.

⁓ here

it is. And you're in for a treat.

Matt Medeiros (00:36)
Yeah,

you know, and listen, I'm trying not to spend the money. I'm just like, let me just dabble with like the Seiko's and the marathons and let me just play around. Yeah.

Kamil Rextin (00:48)
Honestly Seiko's are so good. I don't own

a Seiko. I own a my first watch was a Bulova. I got it from Costco.

Matt Medeiros (00:55)
Yep.

Yep.

Kamil Rextin (00:57)
And it's amazing. It's like a workhorse. wear it. Well, right now I'm wearing an RS, but it's like you don't have to spend 10 grand, know, five grand on a watch. I think real collectors appreciate the Seiko's and the Bulowas and the citizens and, you know, the Tissos and it's not about the Patek's. Anyway, but that's, yeah. That's a great, that's a great icebreaker.

Matt Medeiros (01:17)
Yeah. I, I, I aspired, I

aspire to get into the, the Omegas soon enough, soon enough when my wife will let me and my kids are off in college. Your agency is 42 agency and you are, ⁓ you, we chatted like real quick before we hit record. You said you've ⁓ been in WordPress early on. I'm excited to talk about a lot of your agency stuff today.

Kamil Rextin (01:30)
Yeah

Matt Medeiros (01:47)
We started chatting because of the AI stuff that you were putting out, so I definitely want to hop on that. for the folks who are watching, what does your agency do and who's your best customer fit for your agency?

Kamil Rextin (01:49)
Yeah.

Great question. So we started out as a demand and agency doing paid media rev ops and stuff. We added on creative and SEO. now I just, like we're kind of playing around with the positioning. We actually call ourselves a demand and rev op shop. So like our core focus is demand and rev ops. But I think now we're.

we're trying to reposition ourselves as GTM because I think what we do goes beyond just pushing buttons on AdWords and building workflows in HubSpot. think it's especially with AI stuff, especially with like email is so under leverage in B2B, we're going into out of home advertising, we're going into like others radio advertising programmatic. So I think it's like more go to market rather than just like when I say demand, a lot of people think PPC, but it's not just PPC, it's more than that. So playing around with that,

Our best customers are tend to be companies between 10 to 100 million revenue that have like a handful of marketing people. They have some channel market fade, product market fade, and they're looking to scale up. they're at that inflection point where their infrastructure and their current growth strategies are not working out as well. And they need an external partner to come in and supplement some of that growth.

Matt Medeiros (03:11)
I had John Doherty on a few months ago and he runs a content agency or, yeah, at an engine and we were talking about, and I'm curious for the folks who are sitting back going, oh my God, how do I approach a customer that's like five million a year? Like, I'm barely holding on with these customers that are like pushing a million. Like, how do I even break into that market?

Kamil Rextin (03:16)
Editor Ninja,

Matt Medeiros (03:37)
And I'm curious, if you have any thoughts, especially these days in the market, like, how folks can start to think about leveling up their game. Is it as stressful? Is that weight as heavy as some people make it out to be?

Kamil Rextin (03:51)
I think there's two parts of it. think one, if you're supporting, mean, five million is not that big. I'll tell you, like if you're supporting a company, larger enterprises, they need more infrastructure from a people point of view. So they need like a dedicated PM, they need like a lot more hand holding, they expect a lot more people resourcing from your side and you just gotta keep shit organized.

I think from a customer acquisition point of view, you have to talk about the challenges they have. And their challenges are not my keyword on AdWords is not performing. Their challenges is I have to 10x my pipeline this year. How do I do that? So you have to kind of talk at that business level, not on the tactical stuff. Does that make sense?

Matt Medeiros (04:34)
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, there's a lot of folks listening to this who just squarely do the website stuff like, you need a website and they might even partner with like an agency like yours. Like perhaps maybe you need to build a product marketing site for your client and they're a good like developer designer to come on to help do that. When you started out in the early days, did you start out just building the website and did you sort of stair step your way into this new space?

Kamil Rextin (05:01)
I started out doing WordPress.com stuff way back when. I don't even remember what it was like 20 years ago or something. It was just like, grew up in Pakistan. So I just like got into the WordPress ecosystem. I never really got deep, deep into it, but.

Matt Medeiros (05:09)
Yeah. Yeah.

Kamil Rextin (05:19)
Couple of small businesses built basic blogs and websites at WordPress.com, like out of box team, customized a little bit, never really like, never was a PHP developer, but new enough to use plugins and a little bit of code to customize stuff. But I think websites have become table stakes now.

like everybody needs a website and you, I think there's a big opportunity after you sell them the website of additional services that they need because the website is kind of like the storefront and you have to drive customers to that storefront.

So I think for like, especially for WordPress agencies, getting into that marketing design aspect is a natural upsell. ⁓ I did that, then I got into the B2B marketing space, and then I kind of did that, and that's where the 42 came out of. We tend not to touch websites because people have so many opinions, and they're such a painful thing to do, and there's like so many chefs in the kitchen. So we don't touch that, but I think there's an opportunity for like anybody who's doing website to not think about

website as a, the website is a tool to achieve a goal. What are the other things that they need to achieve that goal and how can you supplement some of the services?

Matt Medeiros (06:29)
Yeah,

you're probably the first person I've talked to in a while that ⁓ potentially the website, for the work that you do, and you correct me, you fill in the lines, ⁓ where potentially the website isn't the most important thing for the customer or is it? Is the work that you're doing in providing value to the customer driving back to their website or is it mostly, no, we just wanna buy stuff. We want people to buy stuff with the work that you're doing. How does that?

workflow unfold for you.

Kamil Rextin (06:58)
We

drive them to landing pages, which is like a subset of the website, which might be built on HubSpot or something from tracking on an operations part of you or Webflow, whatever have you. But if the website sucks and it doesn't load and it's not good and it like the website has to.

Matt Medeiros (07:09)
Mm-hmm.

Kamil Rextin (07:19)
build trust. And if you look like a sketchy, I'm not like, my wife has an e-commerce business and somebody was in a Facebook group where she's also a part of us like, this website looks kind of sketchy, is this legit? And I was just laughing at her. like, we should invest more in design because like people do judge you by the first impression. we, are critical to the work we do because those are the point where people can work and they read more about it and they understand. I think it's more. ⁓

Matt Medeiros (07:34)
Yeah.

Kamil Rextin (07:48)
We lean more on helping you with the positioning and the messaging and how you describe what you do, how do you connect to your customers. Less so the infrastructure behind the WordPress build or the Webflow build or stuff like that.

Matt Medeiros (08:02)
Yeah.

For the customers that you work with, are they mostly picking like a HubSpot and a Webflow? And do you know why? Like over WordPress?

Kamil Rextin (08:10)
Yes.

Webflow because it's the new hot kid on the block. I think it's a bit more, we've used WordPress in the past. The problem we've had with WordPress is somebody installs a wrong plugin and brings the whole thing down. ⁓

Webflow, it's a bit more secure in that way. There's no open third party ecosystem or plugins. And also from a design point of view, think people find Webflow has a bit of a learning curve. But if you're a designer, then Webflow is very easy to pick up. It's got that visual editor where you can put in CSS margins and stuff like that.

But I honestly think it's because it's a new hot kid on the block and everybody wants to do Webflow. HubSpot, we don't recommend building on your website on HubSpot because if you want to migrate off HubSpot, then you have to migrate your entire freaking website. Keep it separate. ⁓ But it works from a, like if you use HubSpot for your CRM and your marketing, it works really well within that ecosystem. But.

Matt Medeiros (09:12)
Yeah.

Kamil Rextin (09:14)
like you're tied into the HubSpot ecosystem and if you want to leave then you can't leave because now you have your entire thing on HubSpot.

Matt Medeiros (09:19)
Yeah. Yeah.

There's thousands of WordPress people listening to this right now going, my God, I want to throw my phone because of those arguments. And this is what would come up from the WordPress point of view. There's two points. It's price and portability. I want to start with portability first. That is like the thing that most of us lead with is that WordPress is open source. So you can see the code. You can understand what's happening.

Kamil Rextin (09:27)
Yeah

Matt Medeiros (09:47)
but it also allows you to pick from the dozens of WordPress hosting providers that are available. Is that not a benefit to your type of client? Or are they just like, it don't matter to me, man, we just need it to be easy, and that's it.

Kamil Rextin (09:51)
Yup.

I think for our type of customers, they don't care about how the sausage is made. They just want the results. So they don't care about portability. They don't care about WordPress being open source. They just want something that is that their marketing team can go in and go do a bunch of edits on. And I think the word WordPress.

Because it's open source, because it's so open-ended, you can do anything you can imagine. And sometimes that is overwhelming for somebody who's not technical enough. With Webflow, it's like click. You see that visual editor. You can click, change text without the risk of breaking something. Now with Word, Webflow, there's no staging. When you publish, everything gets published. There's no multiplayer mode. There's some downsides to that.

Matt Medeiros (10:38)
Yeah.

Kamil Rextin (10:49)
But from a, it's kind of like Apple versus Linux. know, Apple is a closed ecosystem. You get everything built in, everything kind of works. You don't have to go. But if you're like a technical techie kind of person, you want to like, you know, use open source stuff, you use Linux, and you want to customize it and do stuff. I think for a lot of business marketing people, they just want something that works and they don't care about the plumbing of it.

Matt Medeiros (11:11)
Yeah, based on what you know, well, let me ask you this question. Do you own the, let me take a step back. Let me frame it the way that most ⁓ WordPress agencies approach this. There's a lot of great managed WordPress hosting companies out there. Some of them support the WP Minute and sponsor us, ⁓ but they spend a lot of time, these web hosting companies, ⁓ building relationships and nurturing relationships with agencies. ⁓

Kamil Rextin (11:37)
Mm-hmm.

Matt Medeiros (11:37)
One, because it's a great customer for them, but two, they wanna make sure that when the agency's customer gets on board, that they don't hate that hosting company too. Like they want them to have a great experience. What does that ⁓ relationship look like with Webflow and agencies? Is it nice? Is it, ⁓ you know, is it equitable? Like how does that relationship work in the Webflow world? Because I think a lot of my listeners and myself too,

Kamil Rextin (11:47)
Yeah, yeah.

Matt Medeiros (12:07)
Like we don't understand that side of it, if there's even a benefit there.

Kamil Rextin (12:10)
Same approach, they have extensive partners program. They offer you a lot of support. They have enterprise partners. And if somebody comes to Webflow, they will recommend partners that can, like, based on their requirements, they have a roster of partners that they recommend.

Same like I think any most technology vendors have this approach like we HubSpot has an agency partner program. So HubSpot wants to have a close relationship with agencies in the space so that agencies can onboard their customers into HubSpot. Same with Webflow where they have partnerships with agencies and design shops so that they can onboard their customers onto Webflow. I think it's that one to many relationship that they want to nurture is like an agency has 20 clients so we can get all 20 clients on Webflow.

that I don't sell to 20 clients, I can sell to the agency, can sell to their clients. ⁓ I think there's, it has to be, this is unrelated to Webflow, but like for example, we left the HubSpot partners program.

because they put a quota on us. They're like, you have to sell HubSpot to three customers. I'm like, I have enough quota on my own plate. I don't want to be selling HubSpot for you to like, I'm not going to do your job. So I'm like, you know, screw that amount. So I think that has to be like, and we didn't realistically, we don't get anything out. Like we get, they changed the terms are like, there was, it was unfair to the agency partners and they kind of put like, if you don't sell you out of the partner program, like, well, I'm not going to sell HubSpot. you know, it's, have my own problems. I think

Matt Medeiros (13:20)
Right, right, right.

Kamil Rextin (13:39)
Any partner program needs to be like equally beneficial and it's like don't treat it like it can quickly become a reseller program and that is not what a partnership is like You know you have to approach it from What do you get what do you I'm gonna help you market or sell your stuff you help me market and sell my stuff Not like you're gonna resell my software You're my extension on my sales team in terms of like you have to sell this quarter every month like that just

Matt Medeiros (13:49)
Right.

Yeah,

I used to be an account executive for a hosting company called Page Lee before they were acquired by GoDaddy. And we were managed WordPress hosting. We did enterprise, like our account was, hosting account was $500 a month. Most of the contracts that I was signing were like 20 to 50,000, your average per year, whatever. And we spent a lot, I mean, it wasn't scalable, which was the issue, but we spent a lot of time.

Kamil Rextin (14:23)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Matt Medeiros (14:36)
like working with the agency, onboarding their client, know, big media site, big higher ed site. ⁓ It was great, like it was good work. Like I felt good doing it because it was just like, you know, we got something great here and we're helping these people along. But it was that unscalable part that was very hard in a market that is just like the faster, cheaper, better, like, you know.

Kamil Rextin (14:41)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Matt Medeiros (15:02)
I assume you have those same kinds of struggles with your own agency, right? I've seen some of your, I think you recently had like a all hands gathering somewhere in the world. I saw your team. ⁓ I assume you have that same kind of struggle with being what I'll call smaller agency against like a razor fish or something like that. It's massive, you know, agency. How do you deal with that these days as being the, I'll call, I'll say underdog. I don't mean that in a bad way, but like in terms of like the broader market.

Kamil Rextin (15:11)
In a stumble.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think we're fortunate that we've been around long enough that people know about us. And I think part of the challenge is being around long enough that you get enough recognition in the market that people talk about you. I also think being a small agency, we can move quickly. We are more flexible. We're more adaptable.

And where if you're like with the big agency they have, you put in a change request that needs to go through three people, and then you need to get an SOW, and then we need to agree on the terms. And we're like, you know what? We did this thing. You don't like it? OK, we'll just shift gears. It's fine. We'll invest in the relationship more. And I also think in the B2B SaaS space, there's less of those

There's Directive and there's a couple of these really big guys, but there's less of that Omni-com and that stuff. also, I know the guys at Directive, they're amazing. Everybody knows each other, and we talk good stuff about each other. Everybody has like, it's like, there's enough clients for everybody.

Matt Medeiros (16:21)
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah,

yeah. I feel like this is a bit of an aside, but I feel like having lived in that enterprise land for a little bit, I feel like some customers want to pick vendors that have all the checks and balances because it like slows their side down. then they like everybody kind of quietly knows like, hey, let's all run these checklists alongside of each other. So nobody like pressures us. It's it's no direct question there, but yeah.

Kamil Rextin (16:53)
Yeah.

Yeah, we move slowly. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

yeah. And definitely, like, we have lost deals where they preferred a bigger vendor, where they had more of that. Like, I'm the founder, I show up on a sales call. That's part of my job. And like, we lost one customer because they were like, well, why is the founder on the sales call? I'm like, as a founder, I should be on the sales call. Like, that's part of my job. But they expected, like, an incumbent executive to be on the sales call.

Matt Medeiros (17:19)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Kamil Rextin (17:24)
I'm like, no, we don't have a government exit. If that is what you're looking for, we're not the right shop for you.

Matt Medeiros (17:26)
Yeah, yeah,

yeah, yeah, yeah, it's crazy. I would think that, I mean, I think with the AI stuff that's happening these days, well, here's the question. Are you seeing your own customers starting to dabble with like AI and then are they turning to you going, hey, hey, look what I did. I made these 20, I'll just say blog posts. I made these 20 blog posts for marketing and addressing our

customer avatar, do they look at you and say, look what I did, now you have to do it five times faster because you're the expert? Like what is that synergy like now for you? Okay.

Kamil Rextin (18:05)
They're not using AI that much. So

I don't think a lot of people are leveraging AI to the extent it could be leveraged. I think they're using it for drafting some content.

But I think if you, like on our side we use AI, we have custom GPTs for all our clients where we have all the documents uploaded and we have like notebook LLM which generates summaries and like any customer call we have it goes to notebook LLM so it becomes this knowledge base of like about the customer and the ICP and all the challenges and all the conversations we've had.

I think there's a lot of opportunity to use AI more, especially as a service provider, because it can add so much more efficiency to it. I have a custom GPT where I upload a call transcript. It spits out a SOW for me, ⁓ which is based on the template. I used to spend three hours writing a scope of work document. Now, with two minutes, I spit it out, it just final checks, done. ⁓ A lot of people are looking to us in terms of

how they can leverage AI and we are having some of those conversations where it's more about understanding the process in place currently and how AI can help you do it faster, quicker, better. But it's a lot of discovery. Like it's not like you can just go in and say, use that GPT and they're like, but what do I use it for?

I need to understand, you know, we are looking at that. are using it internally quite a lot for creative production. Like our creative director uses AI, our designers use AI to like make custom stock images. We use AI on the web website for like building internal tooling, cleaning up data, doing that stuff on the content side, all that stuff. think generally, I think people are not as adapting to AI because they're, they don't know where to start.

Especially

when you start, like you give chat GPT like, give me a blog post draft about X and it'll just like regurgitate like basic information. And you're like, what the shit is this? And I'm not gonna use it anymore. And what the trick is like refine it over time to tell it what good looks like to give it examples of what you, what good is, what kind of tone you want. So you kind of have to work it a little bit.

Matt Medeiros (20:18)
Yeah. Yeah.

Kamil Rextin (20:22)
I don't believe that you have to have the perfect prompt. I think it learns from you having those feedback loops.

Matt Medeiros (20:29)
Yeah,

I have the opposite problem where I start too many things that I totally forget that I like I prompted it to like do like research and all this stuff and then I like weeks go by I'm like, I should research this thing and I like wait a minute I already did that like because now it's so easy. I mean I'm burning rainforests right as I'm doing it which I'm not a like super fan of either like I think about it

Kamil Rextin (20:48)
Yes. Yes, Yeah.

Matt Medeiros (20:54)
And I'm just like, here, go research this thing for like 20 minutes, which is like 8,000 Nvidia GPUs going, you know, for my stupid question, right? And I have that opposite, like tech debt, like AI debt, just all building up of all this stuff. It's wild, yeah. I think we all live in this bubble. mean, speaking for myself and probably largely for my audience, where we do feel like...

Kamil Rextin (21:00)
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

Yeah, you're just using too much. Yeah. Yeah.

Matt Medeiros (21:20)
the walls are closing in on us because of AI and we're like, man, are jobs safe? Like, are people gonna want it? But then I talk to folks like you and I talk to other folks that are servicing whatever, enterprise and other customers, and the other customers aren't even touching it, they're not even using it. And we're thinking to ourselves, man, the world is ending here for us. ⁓ But maybe not the case for the folks that you're seeing. Do you have a vantage point where you think people will start using it more in your customer?

space.

Kamil Rextin (21:50)
I

definitely think they will. I think AI will help accelerate the work we do, but it won't replace the work we do. And I think...

AI can't replace taste and intuition and experience and just that gut feel that you have about, you you've done this thing so many times, you just know what is right and what is wrong and if something's gonna work or not. And like what good looks like, I don't think AI can replicate that because it can't create original stuff. Like it's been trained on what's already been done. It can't like come up with a brilliant new idea.

Matt Medeiros (22:25)
Right. Right.

Kamil Rextin (22:25)
it can remix

existing ideas and I think it can help you shortcut some of that brainstorming early, you know, like manual stuff, like comparing data, Excel sheets and stuff like AI can do wonderful at that. But to imagine new stuff, I don't think AI can do that. To imagine what is tasteful, what does taste look like, I don't think AI can do that.

Matt Medeiros (22:47)
Yeah,

yeah. How is it impacting you on hiring and and like looking for like filling gaps in the team? There is a podcast, I won't name it. You probably listen to it, I guess. I'll tell you after the show where the one of the hosts like he just says, I run everything through chat GPT. Like I'm hiring people. Yeah. I mean,

Kamil Rextin (23:08)
I think that's bullshit.

Matt Medeiros (23:11)
How do you just lean on this thing and like 100 % say like, thanks, Chad, GPD, evaluate this candidate for me. And like, you're just saying like carte blanche, like, here you go, you just make the decisions for me? It blows my mind.

Kamil Rextin (23:24)
No

No, it's not there yet. don't think it's possible. don't think it was just in the customer, in the like in the services space, people want to talk to people. They don't want to talk to a machine. So I think we're always going to people are always going to want to make sure that there's a human who had his hand on the wheel, making sure an AI hallucinates so much. Like you just can't, yeah, you can't blindly trust what it says. So I think there's always going to be, I look at it as a co-pilot. like AI plus human doing stuff together was

Matt Medeiros (23:44)
It still does, yeah.

Kamil Rextin (23:55)
AI independently doing stuff or humans independently. It's like, how do we merge the two? How do we leverage what AI is good at and what humans are good at? And like, I don't want to go through like 15,000 CRM records and like check for duplicates and you know, AI can do that for me. I don't have to worry about that. And I don't want to be like writing code for some app that I want to make. AI can do that. But like MVP, not production. But.

I need to tell it what to do, I need to give it what I need, I need to have the use cases, I need to work with it to shape the thing. But yeah, don't believe in the whole, know, yeah, my marketing team is all AI stuff, like, no, that's bullshit.

Matt Medeiros (24:34)
Right, right.

Yeah, no, that makes sense. ⁓ I wrestled with for like 15 minutes the other day, which now is like an eternity and like AI time. But for like for like 15 minutes with Claude's like integration to Stripe. So if you've not used Claude before, like now you can like, allegedly, it's like integrated into Stripe. So I'm like, cool. Let me just try to connect my Stripe account and just identify my top 10 clients. Man, it was 15 minutes of like back and forth. I mean,

Kamil Rextin (24:43)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah,

Matt Medeiros (25:03)
It's something I could just go into Stripe and sort by revenue. But I was like, well, let me just see what AI does. And I wrestled for 15 minutes going, and I just gave up. was like, this is not even working. The promise isn't even there. It's just mind blowing. All right, so we're at the final sections of the show here. And we brought you on to talk about AI and we have been, but you've been building.

Kamil Rextin (25:05)
And just wait five minutes.

Yes.

Yup, Yup, yup, yup. Yup, yup, yup.

Matt Medeiros (25:31)
apps internally for the team, or at least that's what I took away from your tweet. What's your preferred stack for AI to build these apps and to build these utilities for the team to use, or at least for you to use?

Kamil Rextin (25:35)
Yes, yes.

We use Replet right now because I just find that you can deploy it on the platform. You don't need to sign up for Bercel or something. Replet agent is...

very very good. I can give it like a PRD and like say I want to make this and it can like go and like do a lot of that stuff. I think it creates a lot of bloated code but these are not production apps. These are just internal use, five, ten people using them. So like I'm like I'm fine if it's not the best, the know, the most efficient way of doing things as long as it does what it does. We're using a lot for like scraping LinkedIn ads, HubSpot analysis, like we do a lot of rev ops HubSpot stuff like instead of me manually or the team.

in manual reviewing like 500 forms on like what fields are missing, what are duplicates, it can do all of that for us. So like it plugs into the API, it authenticates what username and it just pulls that data, analyzes it, spits out a report for you. So it saves us a ton of time when we're those kind of things. Outside of that, we're using like custom GPTs for like client copywriting, get like 80 % good enough draft, ideating on ideas, VO or Luma Labs for

like video and motion, so giving it static and like adding motion to those things. So like our design team uses a lot of that creative stuff, mid-journey, all that stuff. On the rev-up side, we use like Replate and Cloud and the artifacts. Cloud can make like really nice artifacts. So, know, data reporting, data analysis, it's really easy to do that. And I think AI is frankly good at that. Like it gets better at spotting patterns and reading numbers than humans are.

Matt Medeiros (27:18)
Yeah.

Are you the the replet lead for the team or do you have like other folks on the team building stuff in replica?

Kamil Rextin (27:27)
I'm the nerdiest on the

team, so I'm always in Replay, I'm doing stuff, but our web dev is going into Replay and now he's exploring that stuff too. He's been using WinSurf and Cursor and all that stuff.

Matt Medeiros (27:35)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, I found Replet to be so I use it my day job is at a company called rocket genius. They make a plugin called Gravity Forms and I spend a lot of time in Replet and I find that to be the most sane choice, especially in a in a a company environment where I'm like I don't own the company. So like if I'm going to bring a team into AI like.

Kamil Rextin (28:02)
Right. Right.

Matt Medeiros (28:07)
Everything's there. There's one throat to choke for a replet and it makes more sense than if I were like doing the stuff I do on the side, which is like I'll build with cursor host on you know Netlify, know, yeah hack my stuff together like replet in this all-encompassing thing is nice for that You know, and I really and I really enjoy like building that that stuff out ⁓

Kamil Rextin (28:08)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, you can just like hack your, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

And I think they're

investing a lot in security too. So like they're making sure that you don't expose your API keys and stuff like that.

Matt Medeiros (28:30)
Yes, yes.

Yeah, I saw that they had a pretty big thing recently where it deleted a production database. Yeah, that's crazy. That's crazy. Where do you see the future of your business going with these tools that you're building? Do you see it accelerating the business, or is it just nice to have?

Kamil Rextin (28:39)
Yeah, Jason Lemkin. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Matt Medeiros (28:59)
kind of aiding in that 20 to 30 % productivity, but do you actually see it opening up more doors for you as you grow the business?

Kamil Rextin (29:09)
I think it opens up opportunities in expanding into AI consulting, for example, from a GDM point of view. I think it opens up opportunities for us to productize our IP and our processes into these tools that we can build. our way of doing X is like a product that we can use or potentially sell. So.

Matt Medeiros (29:14)
Okay. Yep.

Yeah. Yeah.

Kamil Rextin (29:31)
I can see it becoming a core part of our business. I don't think we're going to pivot to software. I think we're always going to be in the services business. But I think AI can help us. It's an additional.

value add for our customers that when they work with us, they also get access to these toolings that we build internally that potentially we can bring our customers, I don't know if that's gonna happen, but we have some proprietary tooling that we can use built on top of our way of doing things that our customers can get access to as well. really like, the inspiration for this was CTC, which is like an e-commerce agency. They have some internal tools they use for reporting and they have their own methodology, have their kind codified tooling.

AI and Replet makes it accessible for anybody to be able to do that.

Matt Medeiros (30:20)
Yeah, yeah, I do have a crazy ⁓ theory. This is my tinfoil hat, and I've debated it with some other folks for a little while, but I think we'll have a day where where your Apple phone, your iPhone will build apps for you with Swift. Like if you want your own to do app that does something that a to do app doesn't do in the app store, I think Apple is poised to kind of solve that for the end user. You know?

Kamil Rextin (30:39)
Yeah. Yeah. That's a good. You can just tell it. That's a good point, actually. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

yeah. Yeah.

Matt Medeiros (30:50)
It'll be part

of your monthly bill of your whatever Apple calls it Apple not Apple care or whatever they call the monthly thing. Whatever is 10 bucks a month you get storage you know you get I yeah the iCloud all that stuff. It'll be part of that. And like I think.

Kamil Rextin (30:59)
Yeah, the iCloud, whatever, yeah.

Yeah, actually, I think that's a

good point. Yeah, you can just tell it, hey, say, rebuild me this app on this, this, this, and just like build a custom app for you. I think that's pretty, I don't think that's too far off to be honest.

Matt Medeiros (31:08)
Right. Right. Yeah.

Yeah, we'll have to see. We'll have to see. ⁓ Camille, thanks for hanging out today. Some awesome stuff. Good to hear that you are excelling and that you're finding ⁓ your footing with AI and you're growing the team. Where can folks go to learn more about your agency?

Kamil Rextin (31:30)
Go to 42agency, 42thenumberagency.com or find me on Twitter or X. I'm never going to call it X, it's always Twitter for me, so find me on Twitter. I'm very excessive.

Matt Medeiros (31:40)
Follow you on Twitter

also for your watch talk, your ⁓ horology. Everybody, thanks for hanging out today. Thanks for watching the WP Minute, thewpminute.com slash subscribe.

Kamil Rextin (31:45)
My voice talk, yes. Yes.