The WP Minute+

Matt: Corey Miller, welcome
back to the WP Minute.

Cory: It's good to be on again, Matt.

I missed you.

Matt: We're no longer competing
for the same audience anymore.

Cory: Oh

Matt: what a great, not that
we ever competed, fisticuffs.

Yes,

Cory: new day and I love what you do here.

Of course, Matt and always, we've
been friends for a long time, but also

mutual supporters in the media space.

And so thanks for that.

Yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a new day.

Big stuff going on and good changes.

Matt: lots of stuff to talk about today.

Number one, A2 was acquired.

We're going to talk
about that post status.

Was acquired we're gonna talk about
that and a couple other Mergers

and acquisitions in your life.

It's been a busy two or three or maybe
a month I don't know you tell me how

how how how are you feeling now that
all of this stuff is out into the open?

Cory: I used to, for years ago, like
I thrive on changing all this and

it was because I was initiating it.

And so a lot of changes.

So I'm, I'm, I'm, you
know, happy thankful.

In many ways for a lot of these
changes, I know they're things that

are good and gonna, you know, it's
the next phase of a lot of things.

You mentioned post data, super,
super excited about that.

Don't want to, I want to talk
about that when you're ready.

But yeah, it's been a season of
change letting some things go and

accepting some things overall in
my personal professional life.

But good, like, you know,

Matt: It's always nice to, to breathe
a bit of a sigh of relief, whether

it's you know, all your hard work
with, with post status and the

WordPress community and, and getting
that what I'll call taken care of.

And we'll dive into that in the
back half of this episode, but

let's talk first about the A2 stuff.

World host group is the
new owner, suitor of A2.

What you know, you get the news, you're
like, oh man, hosting in WordPress

it's a game, built it on trust.

It's a game built on relationships,
at least as in terms of, of WordPress.

And now you go into this, what
I'll call this bigger pool of

talent, of technology, of assets.

The team looks at you and goes,
well, you're the guy with the boots

on the ground with the community.

What do we do?

How did you first like phrase this to the
team or frame it to the team to say, Hey,

look, WordPress community, super valuable.

Let's go easy here.

Let's not just like put out a PR
release and just move on with our day.

Like we, we got to do this the right way.

How did you manage that?

Cory: Yeah.

There's been a, it's been a whirlwind
of the past couple of weeks.

And so, you know, I love really like and
love the new leadership team I've met

said dilemma, our CEO Tim, who is our
chief commercial they call it commercial.

It's really cool.

I like it.

It's product marketing cells.

I believe he is where I'm lining
up underneath and Some of the

others, and they are very,
very familiar with WordPress.

In fact, I think our COO has given talks
at WordCamps before they ran a agency like

a maintenance fixing type site called fix.

net.

So when they talk, it's really
refreshing because you go, you

know what you're talking about.

And I think, you know, way more
than I do on many of these things.

They're in the details
and the technical parts.

And when I heard their vision and values,
I said that, yes, that's what we need.

Hosting industry, WordPress, a lot
of ups and downs over the years.

And, you know, people in
WordPress know, you know, so, Hey.

Would you get on a video with me and talk?

And so he did.

And I was so thankful cause you get
to hear it from him, not take my word

for it and everything I've seen and
heard as I've continued to step, learn

more, figure out where everything
is kind of settling in which is so

early still that it feels promising.

And I like.

What I'm hearing, I really do the vision
is cool, the values of, I was on one

of our pretty extended meeting talking
about all that thankful being able to

contribute to it and I like that and you
know, my thing to seven team was let's get

out and share because in the absence of
good information, people make things up.

You know, so that's a team thing.

That's a world thing.

That's a human thing.

If you're not communicated, you'll with
people will draw their own conclusions.

And I said, you know, to him and
I loved how responsible he was.

Let's do it.

Let's jump on.

And so, to hear from him directly,
he's got a lot of experience.

This is not just someone coming
in, swoop up, got great plans.

And they need, you know, companies need
to make profit, including WP minute.

But the other part is like,
it's, it was compelling.

It was new to me and I
go that, yes, that too.

So, and he's a great communicator.

So, you can, you, you have that.

I know people will be able
to see that right now.

I hope they do and look,
and as he mentioned is just,

just give us an opportunity.

To do these things.

We're still in early, early, early
phase, but I really like to plan

to not to increase product and
support, not decrease to increase.

That's the theme that I've heard
in the hosting industry overall,

you know, coming to get spot.

Things inevitably go down, somehow
they'll start to bounce back up.

It's cyclical in the hosting industry,
but I loved it because they've got

a plan and they're savvy and know.

You can hear Seb's word
directly, it's like profit comes

from taking care of people.

I'm in.

Like, I like that.

Matt: World Host Group, you can
check out the website, worldhost.

group.

There's, I mean, 14 brands 14
hosting companies under this brand.

We were talking earlier, like, look,
it's, in this day and age, anyone

can Google and go up the ladder.

Yes, private equity.

Yes, big brand.

Yes, many, many brands
within one brand, right?

And you see this, sort of, this typical
structure, this typical org chart

of enterprise and PE kind of feel.

But, I, I, what always gets lost,
Particularly in the WordPress

space is, hey man, sometimes
the rubber meets the road.

The business has to run.

These are business decisions.

Yes, PE has a particular playbook.

There are playbooks that
some are good, some are bad.

It's far too early to tell for you because
we're just announcing this stuff today

on, on how they assess their portfolios,
the brands in their portfolios, et cetera.

But.

If you're taking things at face value,
you're the one talking to these people

on the interior you know, we, we're
trusting you, the, the, the WordPress

community is trusting you and, and
making sure that A2 is ushered in to

world host group and still, you know,
playing its part in the community.

Private equity.

Open source, WordPress, these are things
that are very delicate conversations

Cory: Very delicate.

Matt: right?

So it's, I mean, I'm sure you're
telling them Hey, this stuff is,

this stuff is in the crosshairs.

I mean, they must know, right?

Looking at the, looking at the
news and knowing what's happening.

They must know that.

And if people are hopping on the call
with you and listening to you, well,

that's good because there could be.

Investors or private equity or big
global brands that are like, whatever,

you know, like, whatever, who cares,
man, you know, we don't care, Corey,

let's just, we're just trying to like
onboard you and get this thing going.

So, but it's good to hear that at least
in this day and age, they're listening

and they're, they're willing to have you
as that conduit you WordPress community.

And that's, you know, that's
all we can ask for right now.

Cory: Yeah, you know, it's it's
interesting I, my first company,

I Themes was acquired by a private
equity backed company in Liquidweb.

And I'll say today, I think I was
mentioning this to someone else.

I go, I don't have bad
things to say about that.

I was treated extremely fair.

I can only speak for myself, but I, I
was, cause I, you know, I kept going

with them and then you see, you know,
leaders like Matt Cromwell, Devin

Walker, and others that are still a part
of that group and doing good things.

And so, you know, it's not
always a nightmare horror story

for anyone, team or customers.

And so, you know, my part was just
going, you know, let's show the

humans behind this and the depth.

You know, I was, I told Seb, our
CEO, I said, I don't hear a lot of.

You know, hosting company, CEOs,
there are some, but get out in

front and talk like he did, like,
you know, he was actually from his

home office, you know, sharing it.

And I go, that's what I want.

And there's a funny part you'll see
where he talks about when he started

back at 13 years old, starting, you
know, tinkering with these things

that like a lot of people in tech did.

And I go that, that, that,
that's a good signal.

Understanding he's built a hosting
multiple hosting companies before

he's built software on teams.

There's a tracker that flows into the CEO.

Okay.

This is it.

Let's just take a second and
say, this isn't the typical

thing we've seen in the past.

Not throwing shade on anyone, just
going, it's just not what we've seen.

And it's compelling to me.

It's interesting.

I go, tell me more.

I want to, you know, I'm leaning
in when I'm hearing this from

branding to product to support.

And so that's encouraging to me.

Those to me are very good signals.

You know, but I said, we'll say,
and me too, is just test show.

Let us show you, let us, you know,
just give us a moment of like, before

you kind of make some assumptions to
see what we're going to do, because

the team I've met, the commercial
team everybody I met, which is really.

Another great, you know, signal for
me is they're excited about what Katie

Richards and I do with our community team.

That's, that's continuing on and,
you know, WordPress in particular,

everybody just acknowledges it's
huge, you know, but that's a good

signal that they value that part of
what we're doing, reaching customers.

And then again, some.

Thoughtfulness, I would say, not to
say in my personal past or wasn't,

it's just, I really appreciate some of
the thoughtfulness about what they've

done and how they've communicated
back what, what we're doing as it all

kind of flies together with all this
emerges with their bigger strategy of

what they're doing and it's compelling.

Matt: I have this whole other thread of
thought about like AI and the safety of

our, of our jobs as like marketing people.

But I am feeling pretty confident that
folks like you and I and Katie who truly

understand the value of community and can.

can really, you know, pull on the, well,
the valuable threads of the community.

Like, understand who the players are.

Understand the needs of not only
the You know, the inside baseball

players of WordPress, but what
the, what our customers need, what

WordPress customers need you know,
the customers of our customers need

when they interact with WordPress.

And what I'm getting at is, two things,
number one, we don't have to talk

about it, it's just something that's
on my mind, like the AI stuff is a

thing, and I'm always like constantly
thinking about that, but if there's

a thought there for you, let me know.

But really the other thing is, I'm sure,
you know, folks at Worldhost and others,

they They'd be foolish to look at the
WordPress community and be like, Ah,

yeah, we know that thing is over there.

And they call it, you know, this nice
little community thing, but it's whatever.

They'd be foolish to approach it that way.

They should be looking at it
going, How can we do that WordPress

community thing with these
other technologies that we have?

You'll, I mean, they might not, it
might not get as WordPress community

as long as we all stick together in
the WordPress community, but they

should be looking at that going, okay.

That's pretty good.

It's not a money maker.

It's hard to, you know, do the typical
ROI thing on it But it's working

and how can we pull that in to other
areas of our business and you know

Not to put too much weight on your
shoulders, but you'd be the guy

Cory: Ha ha.

Thank

Matt: That's good.

It's gonna have to you know, erect
that structure in you know internally

to you know to world host group
But yeah any thoughts big big sort

of pontification there but any
thoughts on on those on those areas

Cory: I think you know, one, we can just
all assume most any hosting, I'm making a

broad statement here, but most any hosting
company has got to think about WordPress.

Like if they don't.

They're in some niche thing
that, that, you know, it was like

it was probably 10 years ago.

I remember it was just all
the hosting companies kind of

started to go, what's WordPress.

And I think WP Engine
was a big part of that.

Coming out Paisley different
places, but showing.

You know, professionalism and
quality and the need for it.

But then, you know, one day I felt like
10 years ago or so, housing companies

woke up and go, someone run the numbers.

And it was like, I'm just guessing, but it
was like 60 percent of your infrastructure

has this thing called WordPress.

And and it just, that was when all
of this changed because, you know,

when we break it down from a business
sense for a second, recurring

revenue, subscription revenue.

Is the gold standard, you
know, for businesses, how,

why SAS is such a huge thing.

So it does, the reality is.

It would be very attracted,
attractive to investors.

And that's what we've seen
over the last 10 plus years.

And WordPress is just people
going, wow, this is huge.

As we've grown and matured as
a community, as a platform.

So, you know, I just recognize
and accept that, like, I think.

If I can get to the space where I
go, that should be a good signal back

that we've grown something pretty big.

It comes with new sets of challenges.

Absolutely.

That we've seen.

That's why I sold iThemes.

I go, you know, got it.

He's just bought security and
managed WP and all these place.

And then you know, it
just started like, okay.

If I just do my math, they're
going to, they're going to camp

out in backups and security.

And now I think most hosting
providers have some kind of

backup for their customers.

And so that was our chief
product at the time.

And that's what ultimately
led me to sales.

Like the industry is getting bigger
and there's a lot of attention.

But on the, I think, I think that's
a question everybody's, you know,

thinking about too underneath
this is, I don't even know if

disruptive is the right word for AI.

Matt: yeah, I totally agree.

Cory: It's like, You know, you know, I've
been around together a long time in this

space, but I remember when the iPhone
came out, you know, and you're like,

that was the first year right after I
think, or right before I think started.

And it, in two years changed,
fundamentally changed the world.

And you're like, you know, at the time
we're like, okay, is it responsive?

Is it adaptive?

How do we do this?

Matt: Where's the buttons?

Where's the buttons?

This thing is stupid.

Cory: Yeah, for our themes
though, you know, you're

Matt: Oh, right,

Cory: wait, we're just used to monitors.

Now it's a very small screen
that's different sizes.

And I remember going through that
and look, it's better now for

it, you know, going through that.

And but you know, it
feels like tech for me.

I've always said like this, like
going like this when Chachipiti was

probably last year or so, I was like,
when I started actually using it.

I go, Oh my God, it feels like now
it's going like this straight up.

And I go, I can't comprehend
that dimensionally.

Matt: Yeah, yeah,

Cory: a simple guy.

I'm like.

It's going to change everything.

I don't know.

Matt: Yeah,

Cory: I think most of us are, and I'm
glad there's been efforts to think about

how AI can be used in with WordPress to
help people, but I use it every day and

all day, personally and professionally.

Like I go, wow, I feel a little
bit old now and I feel like

a little bit of a dinosaur in
tech, but I go, Oh, I love this.

This is my little buddy.

Like.

I don't call it a name.

I call it chat, but like, holy cow,
it has increased quality of my work.

Clarity, all that in a big way.

So like, yes, I think everybody's going,

I don't even know what to do.

You kind of try to stay with it as
best you can, but yeah, incredible.

And I'm glad we're at least thinking
and you brought the topic up.

Because I see it as a tool.

Great, great tool.

I don't want to protect the future.

Can't.

I'm gonna be dead wrong every
time, but I just go, We should

leverage this in some way.

No doubt.

You

Matt: yeah, it's hard to even, I just
recorded a video earlier for my YouTube

channel and it's in, at this point
now, like you can't predict the future

in five year increments right now.

With, with this with chat GPT, open
AI, and, and all the other stuff, like

Hugging Face, the open source stuff.

It is a radical change that's about to
happen, and you really have to look at

it in, like, one or two year increments.

And if you're trying to guess
anywhere beyond that, good luck.

Like, you, you have to be in the
top 01 percent of the tech world

insiders to understand what,
like, what this stuff is gonna do.

But how that impacts WordPress, and
I think one of WordPress greatest

advantages, right now anyway,
is because of hosting companies.

I just want to talk about
distribution for a moment.

Like, the fact that, like, WordPress
is very popular because a lot of

hosting companies distribute it.

And I think that is You know,
in today's climate of WordPress,

everyone's like, Well, you know,
we're just going to fork it.

We're going to come up with a new one.

Right?

That new one will take over.

We'll have new leadership on that one.

Or it'll have this feature set.

We'll remove Gutenberg.

It'll do this.

Yeah, okay, great.

Great idea.

And it might be a nice hobby project.

But the thing that is going to be
quite nearly impossible to dethrone

is WordPress distribution.

Right?

Every host, one click install.

And it's a little bit of chicken
or the egg kind of thing.

WordPress does have a brand.

As much as us, 1% ers of WordPress,

Cory: Yeah.

Matt: you know, say things like, Oh,
there's no marketing, there's no brand.

People still know it, therefore
people request it, therefore

hosting companies distribute it.

Yes, it's free and it's open source,
so I understand that part of it.

But there's still a brand there
and it's still being requested.

Based on like what you've done with
iThemes and, you know, I totally forgot,

like Liquid Web of course, like do you
have a thought on like the power of

distribution and how maybe people should
be thinking about Maybe not forking

the entirety of WordPress, but maybe
coming up with something new because

dethroning distribution is difficult.

I don't know if you have anything,
any thoughts on distribution.

Cory: I'm trying to remember the
book off the top of my head, but

I know it was Clayton Christensen.

He talks about, I'll find it in a
second, but basically disruption where

any company or product in the sense
of WordPress gets in and eventually,

you know, becomes very disruptable
because it's like, it's in the thing.

And I, I don't think he uses this,
but I think about tech debt and things

like that, like, you know, when we
started iThemes, there wasn't like

fleshed out, Stripe didn't exist.

So there wasn't fleshed out things to go
automatic renewal, recurring subscription.

We'd have to build that.

And then we're like, got to build
this, got to figure this out.

And things had advanced a lot,
but you go, whoa, we got to

now transition this big thing.

And I'm not saying that about WordPress
necessarily, but, but I think, I have to

look up the name of that book, but it was
really crossing the chasm, maybe, but it

was this fact where companies, products
get to a certain space and they're just,

it's tough because they've, they've just
got a lot of overhead, you know, you

and I have children when I was single,
then when it was just Lindsay and I, and

now we have kids, those are different
stages of my life, you know what I mean?

Matt: they were.

Cory: And I think about what
that with WordPress, like.

You know, what, one of the
incredible strengths has

been backwards compatibility.

Like we think about those things as
a project, you know, like there's

someone that doesn't want to upgrade
to a different version or whatever

the legacy systems are there.

And then it's backwards compatible and,
you know, companies don't typically

do that, you know, but WordPress
does are focused on inclusion.

Oh my gosh, diversity,
equity, and inclusion.

I love that.

That inspires me personally, you
know, to bring that back to my

community and inside my heart too,
is to go, I do want to include it.

You know, anybody that wants to be here.

I want to welcome when Michelle for
shit, say the Pac Man when you're in

a group, get the Pac Man and open,
always keep that Pac Man over there.

So, you know, obviously
WordPress has changed my life.

In enormous ways, it's taken me on
the most incredible 18 year adventure.

But I think there's realities of
any software like it is like, you

know, enterprise has needs, different
markets have needs, do it yourselfers,

agencies, that's a lot to take on.

And I can't imagine that kind
of weight from a project load.

And so, but I mean, then
we've also seen competition.

Get so much better 2006 when I
started my first WordPress site.

I was like, what else was there?

It was blogger blogger.

com for a blog at the moment, but CMS and
all that stuff It was mostly proprietary

and all that and then WordPress hit this
critical moment I've often said that like,

you know, Matt Matt is a In my belief
is a historical figure in our history of

our planet And should be mentioned and
also Mike Little for taking those steps

to launch WordPress to fork B2 launch
WordPress, because I was just reflecting

on this, Matt, like a hundred years ago,
you know, I've got a heater right here.

I've got air conditioner, we get internet.

I'm talking to you, you're in
Massachusetts and I'm in Oklahoma and

like those a hundred years, just a
hundred years ago and communication.

So what did the internet do?

And I go, and a key figure
in that is WordPress.

How it helped the rapid expansion
of the web still there too.

But with that, it's 20, what, 23 years
old now, that is crazy in software terms.

Matt: for sure.

I want to talk about the post status
stuff, but one more question on the A2.

Any, I'm sure people are listening
like, okay great, they got acquired,

so what's going to change immediately?

Anything you know of, anything
you can talk about that's

going to change immediately?

Price, dashboard, URLs, anything
that is changing immediately on

the A2 stuff with this acquisition?

Cory: So the great news, one of the
other signals I'm like, tell me more

about this because we know the buy
strategy, you know, in WordPress,

we're very familiar with that.

I think mostly Asian standards
are extremely savvy with these

things because they're affected
by them, but definitely buy.

But they said two
additional words and build.

And I go, I want to know the end
build part and it is product.

And I'm very compelled looking
at Seb's past, the leadership

team's past that flows into that.

It's not just, Oh, this
will do this better thing.

Bring it in here and do that.

It's not that it's like, no,
let's build an experience.

They, and he says over and over to in
every communication I've talked to him.

It's like, we're trying to
build a sustainable, healthy

business that is profitable.

It needs to be profit.

That's a fact of business.

And I go, that and build
part is interesting.

Cause I think one of the key
questions I want to get in front

of too, and share this vision, just
simply share his vision, leadership

team's vision is the end build part.

So product for sure that's going on.

Has been going on before
we were even a part of it.

And then now there's
plans in place for that.

That will be rolling out that I, I
don't even know all of them, but I

know, you know, Aaron Campbell over
there in product, he's actually

in the bigger commercial group.

And so I go, this buds well, and
I'm hearing the right things.

And let me think what
else in the build part.

So there'll be more stuff coming in
the next, I don't know, three to six

months that people will start seeing.

My thing was just, let's share CEO.

his vision and values.

And then just give us
a moment to show you.

And if we don't, we don't, if we do,
you know, but I, one, one other flag,

big word, and you've used this word, but
he used it and I said, I want to know

everything you have to say about this.

Cause I love it.

Matt: Yeah.

Cory: Trust.

We want to build globally
recognized, trusted brand.

And I, and I said to him, I said.

You know, hosting industry
overall does not instill trust

and you've worked in hosting.

You know, this, it doesn't
necessarily scream.

Trust me, trust me, trust me.

And I think that's compelling
that we would even say it and

put it out there because I go,
there's expectations with that.

And they aligned with what I've heard
and continue to hear, learn more about.

Where are we going?

And I go that, Oh yes, trust it.

I want that all day, every day.

I want to be in a company that that's
the promise we're always shooting for is

and still trust because frankly speaking,
it hasn't always been there in industry

Matt: Yeah, no, I mean it's, it's,
all you can do all you can do is try.

All we can do is hope that that
you steward in A2 and the WordPress

community along with that.

And, you know, we'll check back
in about six months to a year.

Cory: at please do, please do.

That's what I invite everyone.

And that's what we're saying too.

And Seb will say that is here's our plans.

And then just give us a little
bit of time to start showing you.

The background to those.

And that's all I'm asking is just
give us a moment to show you these

cool things I'm hearing about and
learning about and involved in.

And so,

Matt: Speaking of giving you a moment,
everyone listening to this, just

take a, if you're out for a run,
if you're clean, doing your dishes,

cleaning your house, just stop for a
moment and enjoy an exhale of relief

for our good friend, Corey Miller.

And you know, it's hard for me to
interview you on the, about the post

data stuff because listen, I mean, I, I.

Again, it's not my full time job.

It's a side thing with the WP minute,
but my struggles of like Getting people

to care about the WordPress news and
community, getting sponsors, finding

talented people to create content, right?

Making content myself and chugging
that engine along every single

year along with a membership is, is
not for the faint of heart, right?

Because we were talking before, you
know, you have a community site,

you have a content site slash media
site, and those are either, you

know, Getting pulled down by the
temperature of WordPress or getting.

Pulled up if the temperature of WordPress
is nice But it's the hard times people

are like I'm so sick of WordPress.

What are they doing now?

And if when it's good, everyone's like
oh great sign me up to your sponsorship

at WP minute You've been going through
this at a bigger scale with PostStatus.

More members, more
sponsors, more problems.

Take me back to your, your time of, when
you first acquired PostStatus and you

started thinking about the future of
what you wanted to do with PostStatus.

How do you decompress that now?

How are you grateful, thankful, regrets?

What can you share on the emotional
level of starting and finishing

this chapter in your life?

Ha,

Cory: oh man, I've been doing a
lot of journaling about this, Matt.

And you just said the finishing part.

And I think with all these things,
and it's not just post status and

A2, we've had four things between
Lindsay and I that we've dealt with.

I've jokingly said to one of my
entrepreneurial friends, I said, if you

want to sell your company, touch my elbow.

Because like now evidently is the hot time
for me to be involved in these things from

A2, post status One of our startups that
we had funded a couple of years ago and I

ran and then her business, she merged two
of her businesses together, consolidate

with her partners, push forward.

And so I'm like, if you want it, just
go ahead and just touch my shoulder,

rub my elbow because evidently right
now it's all coming around because

it's like two week period of time.

So that part, Matt, thank you for that.

The finishing part.

I, I have been very relieved
and ready and I'm sure people as

well, you know, for, for something
new, a new chapter, all that.

I feel proud that we were able to
take Brian's work as the founder.

What he did and started, which is really
compelling, like such an active, loyal

group that wants to talk sometimes you go,
okay, let's keep it in a bar, you know,

overall, like a really great community
that wants to stay connected, needs to

stay connected and things have happened
in our world and industry in life.

It's like.

The importance of connection.

So when I left and I themes and
Brian paint, actually, I pre being

pinged, prying to ask him something
like to ask you about something.

He goes, I have something
to ask you about.

And I remember I go, I
didn't even think about it.

But what it represented was community.

And I love community.

I love groups.

We did it at iThemes, we built a
team community, we built a customer

community, and then Brian had this
incredible one that I was a part of.

You were a part of, iThemes sponsored
all that over the years because

we need it and we still do it was
just community and doing that.

And so I don't know.

I think it was just so excited to go.

I like this.

This is my jam.

And the reality of business going
through my forties, I'm now in

my late forties, late Matt, like
I'm getting ready to turn 49.

And I started this whole
thing when I was like 32.

So I feel old, my friend, you
know, you, when you're feeling

Matt: I can go to the featured image
from the Matt report that I used

of you in our first interview and

Cory: my God.

Oh my God.

But you know, when you're, you know,
it's the whole cliche, but you know, when

you know, you're old is when you think.

People who are grown adults and
professionals seem like, are they even

25 and some of our C suite and I'm
so energized by it, but at the same

time I go, and there's no bias for me.

I just go, man, I feel like I've done this
for a long time, but they have to, Seb

goes back to 2003 like, just like Brian
Mutick, our founder at A2 and like, that's

the day when you know, you're old is when
you think other people are now young.

And the reality is they're not kids.

They are grown professionals
and awesome at it.

And I'm not talking just
about our team, about anybody.

But that's where I feel like I've been
in the space so long, but long story

short the finishing part is, I think
we, we tried to do a lot of stuff.

Post its probably a little bit
broke me in many ways because

not nobody's responsibility.

It's my own but trying to do stuff not
getting the Momentum build but we did

do good things if I really just step
back We did good things that I still

believe in that we did and then now
Yost and Marika who better, you know To

take on this and they've got vision for
it turning a nonprofit that honestly

Should have been all along because the
reality, it's still a business at the

heart of it though, because you got to
raise money and pay for that somehow.

This has been our ongoing thing for
what, five or six years as I became

part of PostDocs, and these community
efforts, content efforts, I don't

think people understand how much time
goes into WP Minute for Matt Medeiros.

Like, I know.

And I probably know a fraction of it.

It's like, you're thinking about it.

You're working on it.

And over time, I think business overall
is just like, you know, I broke my foot

and that caused a bunch of physical
problems and had to take some time off.

And post house is here when I came
back and I'm thankful for that,

but I am excited, relieved, you
know, I'll be honest, I'm relieved.

And I'm also grateful.

For the time and also Marika, Yost and
Michelle for shed and the members and

the sponsors that have supported us over
the years, but we've been through a lot,

you know, pandemics, economic, you don't
even know how to characterize some of the

economic worldwide economic stuff that's
been on in the last couple of years.

All that to say, I have a huge empathy
for entrepreneurs, even more so.

I am one at heart.

Still, I'm officially retired for the.

For the time being,

Matt: Yeah.

Cory: I just want to do fun stuff.

So when I called Paul Carter, CEO at
A2, Hey, I'm, I'm getting ready to put

Marisma out and tell everybody I'm, I'm
going to, I'm going to go take a job.

You know, he was so awesome.

What a great place to land.

He's an amazing leader and also Brian.

And those were my two direct reports.

And it was so much fun.

It still is, but I started
having fun again, Matt.

Matt: Yeah.

Cory: And that's where,
that's where I'm owning it for

myself and not blaming anyone.

It's myself, but where something was off
balance, where I got to the far place

where I'm tired and maybe starting to
get frustrated and that builds anger and

that builds potentially to bitterness.

And I could get, see myself going
so dangerously close to that.

And that's when I was like, okay.

I just want to do something different for
now, put it in good hands with Michelle.

And then thankfully, you know,
Yost and Marika being a part of

that and eventually taking it on.

And it's a big thing they're taking on.

Let's not even say it's a big thing.

It's not just financial,
but it is financial.

It's also time investment.

They're turning into a nonprofit.

They're not getting rich off this.

They never wanted to, by the
way, it was like, they know.

The importance of a thing like
post status in the community.

So, yeah, I, I just, my, my, my plea
though, is I'm going to be direct on this.

Is that don't devalue the fact that
you get this Slack account and you're

connected to a bunch of people.

Don't devalue that.

Don't devalue the fact there's an
organization for the commercial side

of, of WordPress that we can talk.

Support things like PressConf.

Raquel's doing amazing things.

Sign up, show up, go.

We have to have a place
we have every year.

We couldn't get it done at Postatus.

Raquel's doing it where you can
meet together, gather, talk,

shop, like the old Pressonomics.

And I love that they're inspired by that.

And Sally, I saw was coming and
I'm making plans to be there.

We're making plans to
help support and sponsor.

And but, and then I go to WP
Minute, you know, you've been

doing this tirelessly, Matt.

I don't know how you, I don't
know how you do it, honestly.

But for so long, and I just
say, this isn't even a plea.

It's just like, we need
these things in our industry.

We need WP Minute.

We need PostStatus.

We need PressConf.

Support them.

If not, you're not investing in your
own career or business or ecosystem.

Frankly speaking.

Now I can say that.

Because my hands are done.

I'm advocating on you all's behalf.

Matt: yeah, yeah, no,

Cory: You and I have talked
about this over and over, Matt.

It's, these things are vital.

They connect us.

They serve and support us in some way.

And then it's like, you know, we all
have to go digging for begging, pleading

for sponsorship money for people to
pay the very low cost of membership.

Just do it.

And if you're in the place with your
business by 10 or whatever they are

from WP minute, whatever they are for
posts, do it, show up and support it.

Because this is the thing that's crazy.

And I think that maybe some of this is.

Part of the conversation going on
bigger in WordPress, but it's, if you

benefit from it, actually support it.

I think that's a core part of
the message I feel here, but

I do see it on a bigger level.

It's just, if you're benefiting
from it, step up, show it just

because there's not a buy button,
you know, but hit the buy button,

hit the join button and support it.

And then.

If you do find support, tell the people
you use, tell the vendors, the hosting

companies, the plug in companies.

I can't live without WP Minute.

Go sponsor.

And I would also say if you're an
agency owner, you have, I believe,

you're the VIPs for all of the
companies we're talking about.

The sponsors that would come
for WP Minute or elsewhere.

Because you are the core customer
that we all want to talk about.

Name a hosting company that
doesn't have a partner program.

You know, for agencies.

So let your voice be known.

And this is the thing.

I think we have so many innovative,
incredible people, brilliant minds

and awesome humans in WordPress.

But we don't always see the value of this.

I, even if it's Slack, but now
Raquel's got the Priscon where we

can go and go together and talk shop.

But agency owners, it's in,
this is something I'm borrowing

from Shrevel back in the day is
cooperation over competition.

And you can quickly see, it's like,
you and I, we joke about this.

Okay.

Were we frenemies at Postatus and I
remember Sarah Tavern, you know, we're

all getting in our little frenemies.

It was so fun, lighthearted
because we're all doing our best.

you know, and hopefully
pushing each other.

But that comp cooperation part now,
now, now is the time to lean in now.

If you don't, you are not
investing in the ecosystem that

supports your career or business.

Matt: yeah, yeah, I mean, obviously,
I couldn't agree with you any, any

more, there's, there's so much to
be said in, in the WordPress space.

And I know I've talked about this a
lot, but it's rare that you and I will

talk about this publicly to really like
share, share how we think about it.

But.

Yeah, it, it is it's just a strange
place, the WordPress, like, the

WordPress business sphere, right?

And especially when you look at, like,
the media side of it, because there are so

many people who value you know, the, the
work that, that we do at the WP Minute,

and again, I can't thank Eric Karkovac
enough, who writes for me, Raquel, who

helps me with the community stuff at the
WP Minute, but all that, that content In

the WordPress space, people value it like
they want it, I should say, they want it.

But they, but it's hard to find
people who will invest in it, right?

Money to keep it going.

And as soon as it goes away, people are
like, well, why aren't you covering,

like all of the stuff happening in,
in the WordPress world these days.

It's like, well, you
should be covering it more.

You should be saying this about it.

You should be interviewing these people.

But they're like, whoa!

I'm no big media conglomerate with
a legal war chest, you know, to back

me up if I mistakenly say something.

And, by the way, this
is not a full time job.

I don't know how Ray does
it from the repository.

Cory: Oh, I know.

I told her that yesterday.

I was chatting with her.

Matt: yeah, she's doing
fantastic work, right?

You know, and it's just, and then
there's just, there's so many

people in the, in doing WordPress
newsletters, doing WordPress podcasts.

And that's awesome.

I take the, the, the little money
that I bring in from the WP minute and

I've sponsored other smaller creators
and their newsletters and their

podcast to just like keep them going.

And You know, but at the same time,
what that does is it sort of like

there are people who start and stop
and then just, you know, fade away.

And, and I know that happens, but
in the WordPress space, it, it is.

Pretty detrimental to like people
caring about this kind of content.

And that's why, again, like Corey
said, like you reach out to these other

newsletters and these folks who are
starting up their podcasts and their

YouTube channels and you support them.

Like if it's not post status, if it's
not the WP minute, then pick somebody

else, you know, please you know, to,
to support them because this content

is extremely, extremely important.

Right.

Especially in today's climate.

And, again, further that, against
the backdrop of where AI is headed

you know, news around the world.

I mean, it's already been impacted by AI
and like other algorithms, especially on

social media platforms, but all of this
news stuff is, is everyone's going to

have, you know, the summary of their news.

On their phones.

It's going to shoot over to their email.

It's all going to be AI generated.

It's going to be curated
to exactly what you want.

And what that means is, yeah, the
listicles that happen in WordPress, the

newsletters that go out of the top 10
stories, it ain't going to matter anymore.

Because you're going to
get it somewhere else.

But what you won't get Not yet anyway,
is that the human breakdown, right?

The, the breakdown from, you know,
the, the individual who curated that

news and information and is giving
it to you in, with their angle on it.

Right?

10 year, ran an agency for 10 years,
been podcasting about WordPress for

15 plus years, worked at a hosting
company, worked at Gravity Forms,

worked in the audio industry.

So all of that leads up to
my opinion on X, Y, Z, right?

And then the 12 other people who are
doing that based on their experiences in

life and that, that's the next frontier,
you know, like that's the next frontier.

Like the new stuff, see ya, but
the human side of it and you were

you know, I'll still continue
to consider you a journalist.

Like that's where your
backgrounds in, right?

So you're looking at that going,
yeah, reporting like the, the cut and

dry, you know, black and white stuff.

Yeah.

The, the AI's just gonna give it to you.

Here's what happened today,
, here's what happened today.

And then we're gonna look for a
human to say, okay, can you tell me,

like, what do you think about it?

So

Cory: That's what I value about
you and Krogsgard is that your

opinions helps me calibrate my own,

Matt: mm-hmm

Cory: you know, like maybe I won't
agree a hundred percent, but that

perspective, the commentary is, is
the, is the place because it is,

like you said, all those experiences
wrapped into one to share something.

And even if you don't agree, it gives you
a baseline to figure out your own opinion.

I think we.

Don't fully recognize that always that
having you on here, your YouTube channel,

your podcast that you've been doing
over the years, how much work is there

where you're given a really thoughtful
opinion and perspective on things to

help form like, like you too, you and
Crutch were some of the first people

I would call outside of iThemes to
ask your input and feedback on things.

Why?

For those reasons, you know,
and why I supported both of you

in different projects over the
years and want to continue to.

And the new news that
we're, you know, sharing.

So, because we recognize it, but
it's something that, you know,

it's just like when we put this
together, you had post that as Slack.

Okay.

You had to be watching
or have it on your phone.

You know, you've got your
own Slack at WP Minute.

And then, which by the way,
sorry, I didn't do that on yours.

Cause I'm a member.

I am

Matt: Yeah.

Cory: of WP Minute, but like, and
also the Admin Bar, which I forgot

to say earlier, but that time.

And I don't even remember, Matt.

I hope it was not late for you, but I
was like, okay, ping and then there's

a response and things come in and then
scheduling and then prepping for all this.

I mean, what do you have three, four hours
now into this plus, but you can't even

say that because it's like, start here.

Okay.

Have the conversation.

Something comes in over here.

Okay.

I got to go back.

Wait, has Corey responded over here?

Come back.

And you're like, that's just
to do this piece of content.

Then you have post and
then you have promotion.

That's a lot of work to deliver
the quality you've done for

consistently for so long.

You

Matt: No, I appreciate it.

I want to hit, I want to hit
you with a more direct question

on on running post status.

What, what, what was the most challenging?

This is, this is me as somebody who
runs, you know, a small media site with

a, with a membership site, though my
membership's a little bit different.

It's really, if you like, If you
want to support me, you can donate

and you get access to a slack.

I'm not really promising
anything on the membership side.

Like, I'm not holding any kind
of like internal membership

meetups or anything like that.

I know post status was a
lot more formal on that.

What do you think was the most
challenging when you were at

the, at the head of that ship?

From the business perspective.

Cory: I generally go, but I'm
going to answer this specifically.

There's two problems in business.

I always said every entrepreneur
deals with his money and people

and they're intimately connected.

Matt: Sorry.

Cory: yeah, but the money side was
sponsorships to one, pay all the bills.

And then second, Try to offer more
value, increased quality to our members

and our sponsors and sponsorship.

That was one of the biggest second
we rolled out the business accounts

was asking people to show up and
sign up and support it because we all

need it and have one voice together.

Or at least a common, one
common place to have a voice.

So sponsorship money and then subpar
underneath money is membership.

We just couldn't get that, you know, it
was always heavily advertising support.

70 30, I think when I initially came on
and we try to balance out a better And,

and just didn't get that going, but the,
you know, hot, cold sponsorship stuff.

Okay.

This quarter, someone's
all in there ready.

And I don't have inventory for that.

And then next quarter I do.

And they're like, Nope when shifted.

And I think that's with all of
us that deal with advertising.

The second one and really is second
is that just wasn't my cup of tea

and I didn't always appreciate it.

I wanted a safe, healthy environment for
conversations, but the back end of that

was not something I look forward to.

It's just, and, and I
wouldn't say it was every day.

It was just like a handful of things
over the years where you go, man,

I'm trying to push, get the money
to do the things we need to do for

this and pay me and pay our team.

And then.

It would just invariably come in where
you're like, I don't like honestly

having to tell adults to be kind.

Matt: right.

Cory: I just don't

Matt: it enough with my kids.

Cory: I know and that is the gauge too
and this is anywhere on the internet Not

just post ads, but it's just like there's
a big flag when my children are more

mature and kind than an adult profession
professional and I just didn't that's

just the fact of the internet, you know,
i've done it myself I've been the troll

myself You know, keyboard warrior, Oh,
should let that cook on 24 hour cycle.

That was not as frequent, but it
was there ongoing protecting the

healthy people, protecting people
was tough and draining for me because

invariably come in and you're like,
I can't monitor this all the time.

Matt: I mean, you're talking thousands.

You're talking a few
thousand people in a room.

Like

Cory: all the time, all day, every day.

Matt: it's literally impossible.

Yeah,

Cory: to Michelle for shit.

She keeps things together.

I'm indebted to her and thankful
for her because, but it's tough.

Especially because we are not as
a WordPress industry, we're not

bashful about sharing our opinions.

Matt: Sure.

Yeah.

No, it's the, it's the good
and great of this stuff.

You know, I, I was witnessing before we
jumped on, like I was witnessing like

some of the discussion around like, you
know, what it means to have like private

conversations in a slack group that size.

And, you know, this is
just my personal opinion.

It's not private anymore.

You know you know, one time I remember
I saw this is years ago, I, there was

a conversation happening in a page
builder group on Facebook with over 10,

000 people in the Facebook group and
somebody posted something and I was like,

this, and this was like an amazing post.

I was like, wow, this is like amazing.

This is, you know, this goes back
years when people are still trying to

figure out like is page rules, how is
page rules going to change WordPress?

So this goes back a few years and I, and
I saw somebody post something amazing.

I thought it was great.

Screenshotted it brought it over to
Twitter and I was like see this is what

we should all be thinking about when
it comes to Like WordPress and page.

I thought it was a fantastic post
and I was I was amplifying it And

then that person messaged me and was
like you take that down immediately.

That's a private thing and I'm
like Private you put it in a

group of over 10, 000 people

Cory: Yeah.

Matt: Where do you draw the line between?

private and Under 10, 000 people is, is,
is a private message and it's tough, man.

It's just tough.

It, like you said, it's the internet,
but also it's humans and, yeah, it's,

it's, it can be draining for sure.

Especially when you're trying
to lead the whole thing.

Cory: Yeah.

I still love community.

I just like it on this side.

I

Matt: Yeah.

Cory: having my paycheck,
working with an incredible team.

It starts with Katie Richards and then
the new team, we're all host group.

And, but I like this better because
like for this, for the money side,

I'm just getting paid and I like that.

And then I'm doing the
stuff I really enjoy doing.

So it checks the box where I'm not
having a struggle to go, okay, I want

to do this work, but I've got to go be a
salesperson here and sell a sponsorship.

And I.

Tried my best to learn and grow with that
and say, I can always learn new things.

I learned how to play pay
PlayStation last year.

I haven't played in since
like way back in the day.

And I was like, I can,
I can learn new things.

And, but that side, you know, it
like, this is, this is what you do.

You talk about perspectives,
you ask great questions, you get

compelling guests on, and, but then
you also have a very big need to go

raise money to pay for everything.

And.

You know, that's just, that's a hard job.

Matt: Yeah.

Corey Miller.

I'm so glad that this weight
is lifted off of your shoulder.

Hey, with some, a little bit of new
weight on your shoulders, right?

People are going to be looking at you
going, okay, how's this acquisition doing?

How's A2?

We ushering in our
community, our customers.

But so thankful that you were
able to hang out today and chat

about both of these things.

Any particular place you want folks
to go to say thanks, to follow you?

Any landing page they should check out?

Cory: Well, I did just about
a month ago, pull my side over

to a two it's on WordPress.

Don't judge me on my design,
but I got a new website.

So coreymiller.

com it's a very simple website, you know?

But I was like, Oh, it is that that
would be the connection point as well as,

you know, Twitter, LinkedIn, all that.

And as best I can, I try to stay in touch.

It's nice.

It's a, it's a, it's
heavy, but it's so good.

It's reflection of all the great
people I've met over the years.

I've got a lot of friends, there's
a bunch of DMs sitting in the post.

So I'm going to go say, thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Go support Geost.

Go support, go support, go support,
throw in some WP minute, you know,

and all these ones we've talked about.

But thanks so much, Matt.

I so much appreciate it.

As we finish that journey,
we've handed it off.

Well, we're still handing off things,
but we've closed the deal and we're

super happy and I wish Marie Kanyo
is the best and there really are

incredible humans I'm glad to know them.