The WP Minute+

Matt: Matt Cromwell.

Welcome to the WP Minute.

Hey, thanks for having me.

I forgot to say 9999th Matt.

Matt C: Nice.

It's so old hat at this point.

Matt: You know, the great thing
is though, I'm going to press.

Are you going to press comp?

I am.

I wasn't.

Oh God.

Can't wait to see.

Thinking I would, but I am.

I'm going.

Matt C: I'm gonna see you there.

Matt: I can't wait to see you.

And yeah, I think that's where
this whole thing started.

This whole, like you're the.

18th mat.

I'm the third mat kind of thing.

Matt C: It could have been, it
could have been one of those.

Or Orange County or something
like, actually, I don't know.

I've never been to Orange

Matt: County.

Never stepped foot in it.

No, no.

Yeah, San Diego, either Diego,
like that whole San Diego region.

a lot of folks from around
my area transplant to

is San Diego, orange County, roughly
in the same, is that all the same?

Matt C: Yeah.

No, it's all Southern
California, but yeah.

All the smart folks go there, right?

All

Matt: the, yeah.

Yes.

It is like 50.

No, I shouldn't even say that.

It's 43 degrees today and I'm
like, I, you know, when, when Is

there ever gonna be four Seasons,
like folks promise in New England?

Yeah.

anyway, great to have
you back on the show.

We're here to talk about some stuff
that Stellar has launched, is launching,

has launched, set the stage for us.

What is the new product
and how can folks find it?

Matt C: We are on the Verge, as
of right now, April 16th, of,

launching our biggest product, as
a brand, which is Stellar sites.

And, it's a big deal for us because
it does change the narrative.

Quite a bit in terms of Stellar,
WP is now a go-to market brand.

whereas before a lot of folks thought
of us as an umbrella brand for a

lot of different various products.

but it's come together
in a really great way.

we're really excited about,
what it is and what it does.

and it's, something that we put
a lot of heart and soul into.

So

Matt: how does this go beyond the,
Hosting with, let's say hosting with

Cadence pre-installed, how does it
go beyond this kind of offering?

Matt C: Yeah, so I think uh uh,
one way to navigate that question a

little bit is like, you could think
of like a WP N Engine and Kinta.

They're like, host all your WordPress
stuff with us kind of thing.

Or you could think about Elementor
that does hosted Elementor, right?

We could have done like.

Sites or whatever.

but Stellar as a whole is bigger and
broader than just, Cadence, which

cadence is awesome and amazing.

but, we're actually using our stellar
products to niche into the specific

verticals that we feel like have a
lot of potential, a lot of options.

cadence and solid WP in particular,
they really help give a foundation

for any website that you wanna build.

but then those, those verticals that
we're gonna lean into are of course, the

nonprofit sector where Give is kind of.

Excel and the events calendar as well.

Actually.

we're also gonna lean in on, the
LMS area with Learn Dash of course.

And then, with, events, you can also lean
in there and then also with WooCommerce.

So every single, site that we sell through
stellar sites is immediately a cadence

and solid WP site, but you also have
the ability to go into one of these four

verticals of a store, an event site.

A learning site, a
fundraising site, as well.

So more of a niche, WordPress
hosting environment, rather than

a catchall hosting environment.

Matt: I'm wondering how much you can,
show us behind the scenes with this

question, but how much of this was driven
this decision to, launch stellar sites?

How much of this decision was.

Because folks would get your end
product and be like, oh God, I

don't know how to use this thing.

Like, I, I thought I could just
install, give WP and I, I, this

is just too cumbersome and it's
not the fault of your own product.

It's the fault of just
WordPress at large, right?

Like, take this thing, put
it in this thing over here.

You probably don't even know
what that thing is over there.

And now you just have to make it work
with all the other stuff you have.

How much of that.

Scenario has played into
the decision to do this?

Or is this just like, Hey, new
opportunity, let's try to bundle

this stuff and package it up in that
loosely used word, SaaS kind of, yeah.

Mentality.

Matt C: I think it's more the latter
rather than the, than the first, honestly.

the.

When it comes to the first problem,
like in terms of you're gonna get one

of our products and then you're in a
WordPress environment and you might

struggle a bit, we really had a couple
different things that told us that no

matter what we do here, yes, we wanted to
feel kind of like more like a competitor

to a Wix website or a competitor
to a Squarespace website for sure.

We wanna also be super transparent
that it's not a cookie cutter

situation like Squarespace or Wix.

It is still WordPress and you still
do need to have a DIY mentality when

you go into a WordPress website.

So trying to play a little bit of
both there because it's a little

bit disingenuous for any WordPress
host to be like, Hey, just get

in here and then everything will
be great and fine and dandy.

it's still WordPress and you still
gotta get hands on with it, and

we're trying to be transparent about
that front, but the opportunity is.

That we do think that the suite of tools
that Stellar has been, accumulating over

the last few years really do, amplify each
other in really special ways, and that

the opportunity really is to combine them
and for you and our customers to be able

to get kind of the benefits of all of our
worlds, not just, in the individual paths.

Matt: Walk me through the
experience if you can.

Somebody says, I want a fundraising site.

They click a button,
to purchase this site.

Is this ready-made WordPress
where just all of your products,

are just, are pre-installed?

how does one say, oh, I have a donation
site now, nonprofit donation site.

I feel good.

Like I, I'm, I'm ready to go.

Like, how do, how do you
smooth this over like again?

Yeah.

Knowing that this is
still early days for you.

'cause I can, I totally understand.

Like the ramp up to something like this.

Matt C: Yeah, yeah.

Totally.

So another interesting, thing that
happened very recently is wordpress.com

launched this AI builder, right?

And you did a great little segment
on it, showing, the thing, I was

probably recording a loom internally
at Stellar at the same time you

were recording yours honestly.

and.

They went to market saying AI builder.

We actually also built an
AI builder a long time ago.

Cadence AI is really powerful and
amazing, and we're not going to market

with seller sites as an AI builder.

It's not an AI builder.

AI is a feature.

it's a tool that makes things
nicer and easier for folks.

And when it comes to like, I wanna
build a fundraising site, there is a

path, when you get into stellar sites.

You start without even giving
us your email or anything

with, cadence AI essentially.

And it will, walk you through building
out your fundraising website all the way

till you get to actually see it, visually.

And then it's like, oh,
that's exactly what I want.

And then you click the buy button.

You go through the purchase and
then the site that you built gets

propagated and you get to land
right into that site right away.

So like, like I said, it's not an
ai it, we're using AI of course,

and it is an AI builder, but it's
just an onboarding experience.

It's gonna optimize the way in which you
experience all of our products together.

And you're ideally gonna get
a big headstart towards the

website that you actually want.

not just the idea of a
website that you want.

Yeah.

Matt: I think one of the
criticisms I had, for the.com

AI builder, and it's not just them.

I mean, it's, it's literally like
every, every site that one might

launch with WordPress is, okay, great.

Like you helped me get to from
point A to point, let's say

d in this case, with the.com

AI builder.

you've made some pages for me.

You've put some temporary content there.

There's some like placeholder
images and, and that was quite.

Enjoyable right from that video, and I'll
try to link that up in the show notes.

But the issue is, is for the, the type of,
in my opinion anyway, the type of customer

that's going to use that now doesn't
know like why they have what they have.

Like ai, why did you build these pages?

And you know, in your case
you might have on a donation

page, on on a donation website.

Of course, like the donation form.

But then maybe your system has put
in a, a newsletter page and they're

thinking, oh my God, I don't even have,
I wasn't even thinking newsletter.

Why do I need this?

So at at what point do you bring in
either professional services, if that's

even a thing that's gonna happen, or how
do you smooth over the understanding of

like, this ready-made site for folks?

Matt C: Yeah, I mean, in many ways
it still does go back to that,

that WordPress as a DIY solution.

I don't mind that little bit of tension
where it's like I built something

that gets me 80% of the way there.

The next 20% is I.

Hard for a lot of folks.

but that experience of like, okay,
here's a whole bunch of content on the

page in a layout that I didn't build.

And I honestly, when I look at that
layout, it's a bit complicated.

but if I want to go and actually put
in my own images and my own content

there, I'm gonna actually learn.

The blocks that create this layout
as I'm doing that, I do think that

that's the type of customer that we
are trying to find are the ones that

want to get hands-on, who want to
actually, customize it in the way that

they feel, really good about it and
that are happy with the end product.

So, that is, you know, not the
absolute, like I would say, cookie

cutter folks who just want like.

Gimme a brochure site that works outta
the box and I don't wanna mess not those

folks necessarily, and not necessarily
the big, like I can fine tune everything

with H-T-M-L-C-S-S, JavaScript, just
let me have the code and I can do it.

It's the folks in between,
who are happy to do that.

So.

I, I think that's where we're
trying to target for the most part.

that doesn't answer your question
exactly, but, it gets there.

Matt: So one of the things that's sort
of like, in the zeitgeist these days

is AI coming for our jobs, air quotes.

Mm-hmm.

Right?

Our jobs meaning, the
freelancer who, might lose a.

A client due to WordPress dot com's,
AI builder, possibly even your

tool, how do you hedge against that?

Is, is this squarely marketed at the
end user who wants something easy

to use for that solution, or do you
see this as an accessory service?

I call it an accessory service to an
agency who's like, I'm gonna build you

either something custom or we can use
this thing over here that's ready made.

Matt C: It's a good question.

Honestly, I think it's worth
talking about a year from now.

again, honestly, because I'm interested
to see who finds the most value here.

We definitely have a large,
group of agency customers, in

our various brands who I think
will find this very interesting.

one of the great things
that we're offering is.

like I said, you are a solid customer
right out of the gate and one of

the things that Solid has is solid
central, and every single person

who becomes a Stellar Sites customer
automatically has solid central as well.

So you could be spinning up additional
stellar sites and manage them all

directly through solid Central, and
it's really powerful tool overall,

really perfect for agencies.

So there's benefits that go outside of
just the website building that I think

will be really attractive for agencies
with stellar sites in particular.

But I think the target that we're
looking for is more of like.

The mom and pop shop owner, who wants
to make a site that will enable them to

have, be successful in their business.

in general, like we, I think that's
in many ways what we all want.

We want folks to be able to build
a website that's gonna help them be

successful so that they can spend more
time in their actual business, and

that the website just empowers them
to do better in what they're doing.

I think that's what we all
want with WordPress in general.

Now.

What is and what today in terms of
that, that's not always the case.

and that sometimes WordPress
itself gets in the way.

that does make the question a
little bit more challenging.

I mean, that, you know, you and
I talked about these lots of

different times over the years.

I think that like 10 years ago we all
were like, you know, WordPress, can

do a lot of things for you, but if
you're serious about your website,

you're gonna need to hire a pro.

Professional for sure.

and that changed a bit and
then Gutenberg came and it kind

of changed everything again.

It kind of ebbs and flows over time.

yeah, I do think AI is an opportunity
for more folks to get a powerful website

quickly, and focus on their business.

but again, only to 80%
and that last 20% is hard.

So.

Matt: You might not have a direct
solution for this, but I'll advocate

for the consultant who's listening
to this or the freelancer or boutique

agency as a way to pair folks up.

Right.

You know, there's a, at the time of this
recording, there's a, a current debate

going on about, $5,000 budget, right?

And, there are those that squarely
say like, Hey, if you want, if you

want to make a real go at having a
web business, you should never service

customers under this, threshold.

You should only really focus
up market because anyone's sub

5,000 isn't thinking about, Their
business properly, effectively.

I'm kind of paraphrasing the
argument, but this is an argument as

old as time, like I started mm-hmm.

The Matt Report podcast years
and years ago, and the biggest

question I had was like, what
do we do about the $500 website?

Right?

Mm-hmm.

Which was like, you know, you and I
probably chatted about that 18 years ago

as, as one of the biggest challenges.

I think like most things, it depends, but.

Even in the face of ai, I know this
is long-winded, but even in the face

of ai, yeah, sure you can make an AI
website, but the, and you might still

pay a consultant $5,000 to figure out
what the hell to do with your business.

You like, you could hire me and I could
build your website for $1, and then for

$4,999, you would pay me for my entire
experience of how this whole thing works.

So this isn't a direct question,
but I would advocate mm-hmm.

On your side to maybe find
ways to pair up, yeah.

Recommended freelancers and
agencies with these customers

that might be looking for help.

Because ultimately it's like I.

You made me a nonprofit site
and now I need, like, how

the hell do I get donations?

Mm-hmm.

Like how do I raise that awareness?

Yeah.

Like what do I do next?

you know, and I don't know if that's
something that maybe your team is gonna

service, but if not, maybe pairing that
up with, with, a community of agencies.

Yeah.

Matt C: I, you know, you're making me
think I, one, one thing I, I love the

idea of is an agency that's like, look, I
recommend you use stellar sites for your

hosting and for your website solution.

What you need to do is go through
their AI onboarding wizard and

purchase your site right away.

That will get you 80% of the
way there, and then you just

pay me to finish it up like.

That's actually a really cool,
unique kind of hybrid solution that

I, that, you know, it could result
in a thousand dollars website.

and those folks who are saying don't pay
less than 5,000, they won't like that.

But at the same time, you
know, it's that last 20%.

yep.

Matt: So, yeah, for sure.

Coaching somebody over the co coaching,
somebody over that finish line for,

would definitely be beneficial.

let's talk about the logistics.

It sounds like the, there's no
additional plugin licensing fees.

Like you might go to Stellar and buy
these individual, individual plugins,

sign up and get these individual licenses.

This is gonna be all baked
in one, one monthly price.

How does that all work out?

Matt C: Yeah.

that's one thing, like from the nerdy,
Tech side, I'm actually really excited

about the way that we navigated this.

A lot of the work that we've been
doing to make this possible is on

the licensing side in particular.

and it, yes, it's all baked in basically.

So once you go through and you
purchase your site, whether it has.

Either just two of our brands
or three of our brands or four,

and you could add add-ons later.

You get issued a stellar sites
license key, and that is valid and

good for any of the products that
you have purchased along the way.

we are having, monthly options
to, to renew monthly, and we do of

course also have annual plans as
well, that come at a small discount.

So, that's the great part about it.

and we made it so that if a license
is issued through stellar sites, then.

The Give team, for example, they will
see that license in their system.

Even though there's no revenue on
their side, they still know that

there's a customer there and they can
support that person just like normal.

so it, that's all worked out
really well under the hood.

and it's really slick system.

also, honestly, a lot of that
infrastructure is just through our

licensing, stellar licensing in
particular, but also solid central

is becoming more and more important
in the way that we kind of use that

to be a cohesive way to manage a
lot of what's going on at Stellar.

Matt: put you in the
hot seat for a second.

Can somebody move away from
stellar sites and migrate?

Matt C: It's WordPress.

Absolutely.

it, you know, there's, it's open source.

you can, you know, build whatever you
want, export it out, go somewhere else.

for sure.

Now there are, you know, per,
domain license, restrictions,

just like any plugin.

But if you come to us and you are
like, Hey, I moved my site somewhere

else, and it's a different domain now,
then we can help turn one domain off

and let you do it on the other one.

No problem.

So.

Matt: Is this a new hosting
infrastructure, specifically for Stellar,

or is this backed by the parent company
and the resources already over there?

In other words, are you building
something brand new in the

background to power all this stuff?

Matt C: There are some
things about it that are new.

if you, if anyone's familiar with
LearnDash Cloud, we definitely are

leaning on that experience already.

That's the other thing is
like, we're not new to this.

We've been doing this with LearnDash
Cloud already for about a year and a half.

we took a lot that we learned
from that experience and, and

just amplified it and did more.

It's definitely what.

What a lot of folks probably
understand is the Nexus infrastructure.

and, that's what's going on under
the hood, but we have kind of

beefed it up a bit specifically
for stellar side's purposes.

there's some really great auto-scaling
that happens on the PHP worker side

that we're really excited about.

there's a really great visual compare
tool for auto updates of plugins and

themes, that will roll back updates if,
if it visually breaks any of your pages.

there's a lot of that type of information.

Structure that makes this a
really powerful and interesting,

hosting stack no matter what.

We're trying not to lead, the ME
messaging and marketing with like, here's

your PHP workers and here's your MySQL
version, and here's all of those things.

'cause that's not the, the primary, but
all that detail will be there as well.

Matt: Which leads me to the last
question about the product, pricing.

Have we announced that yet?

Have we said where it's starting
at and, and what the plans are?

Matt C: I could say the basic, one
is that 19 bucks a month, and, it

does go up from there in terms of
which plan you're, gonna work on.

and, we actually feel like
altogether, considering the.

Plugins that you're getting, and the stack
that you're getting as well, that it's

actually probably too cheap, honestly.

Matt: the, that, so let me just ask that.

19, would that include
the suite of plugins?

Matt C: Mm-hmm.

Absolutely.

That, that's what I'm saying at the, at
the bo at the bare minimum with cadence

and solid, built in, 19 bucks a month.

Yep.

Matt: Well, if you need me to append
the show notes with a different

price later on, Matt, you just.

it sounds like a pretty sweet deal.

let's transition to just talking
about, one other, important

part of WordPress, these days.

I just wrapped up a quick three minute
and 32nd recap on WordPress 6.8,

which launched, I don't
know, a couple of days ago.

Yeah, a day ago.

And, it was quick because
there's not much there.

And as we all know, WordPress 6.8

is the last major release.

So we're told, for the rest of 2025,
and, we'll have a sprinkle or smattering,

whatever word you want to use of minor
updates throughout the rest of the year.

What are your thoughts on this being
the final major release of 2025?

And what does your outlook
hold for, for the improvements

of WordPress moving forward?

Matt C: Yeah, it's a really good question.

Overall.

one that we can debate from
a several different angles.

I'll say the angle that I
feel like I can control.

there's the whole conversation of
like, why in the world is it the,

the wand release and is that good
for WordPress and things like that.

I don't have a lot of
control over that part.

but I think what we do in terms
of folks who commit to help

in the WordPress community.

I actually feel like I'm ready
for slow releases right now.

I feel like there's a lot to be said
about this release not being full

of a bunch of drastic change, but
instead a lot of net sum improvements.

I really like seeing all the performance
improvements that were baked into it.

I really like seeing the accessibility
focus that was put into it.

I think there's a big, case.

For the next, small releases and
even the next couple large releases,

basically being very similar to this one.

a lot more of taking what is there
and just making it even more stable,

more of a UI improvement, more
beneficial as a, as a platform.

Rather than, trying to reach at
like, it, like if we did a, a 6.9

and it was like, WordPress is
now this giant AI builder thing,

I'd be like, oh geez, I'm tired.

Like, I like the incremental approach.

and I think that, that will be
just fine from a platform and

a software project perspective.

Matt: Matt Cromwell, all just aside,
it's always great to have conversations

with you and catch up and think
about the future of WordPress.

Where can folks go to find
out more about Stellar pages?

Matt C: Stellar

Matt: sites,

Matt C: stellar sites?

Go to stellar wp.com.

It's big right there on the homepage.

and, we'll be, selling it there.

So

Matt: fantastic stuff.

I'll be looking forward to seeing you at
press conf in just about a week from now.

I played disc golf last year.

Did I tell you that?

No.

It was insanely challenging.

Yeah.

It's not what

Matt C: people think it is.

Matt: No, no.

I played with, my friend who lives, just
about an hour north of, Orlando, Florida.

And it was hot.

Like it was hot.

Like I played golf,
regular golf, you know?

And it often gets hot and there's no
shade, but it's like a searing heat

versus when I was playing disc golf,
we were like in the woods and it's

sort of like a jungle in Florida.

Yeah.

So it's just like an intense steam heat.

And, bugs and branches.

I'm like, what?

Wait a minute.

Where's the enjoyment in this?

And maybe it was just that course
that I played, but I was like,

wow, how does Cromwell do this?

Matt C: Yeah.

Florida's not my favorite place, honestly.

so I don't, I, I can sympathize with that.

I played last year at, work
camp us in, in Portland.

They have a.

Gorgeous course out in the woods.

it was a beautiful weather.

It was cool and shady and wonderful.

Mm-hmm.

Like it was amazing.

Tempe is supposed to be about in the
like mid eighties I think, which is not

awesome, but it's also not terrible.

Right.

Super dry.

So, and there is a really amazing course
there called Shelly Sharp Memorial.

I'm really looking
forward to playing there.

Cool.

Matt: Fantastic

Matt C: stuff.

Matt: Matt, thanks for hanging
out today and I look forward

to seeing you next week.

Same to you, Matt.

Thanks.